As a parent who travels frequently with a toddler, I love the idea of child-free establishments. First, I understand that there are some times you just want a quiet meal out without kids (especially if you're on a night out without your own kids). Second, for every traveler/patron who is annoyed by a child, there's usually a parent (or two) who is stressing out about his kid's behavior bothering other people. I know I'd feel better the next time my son uses the airport lounge as his own personal talk show set if I could kindly advise the passenger who's rolling his eyes that there's a child-free zone the next gate over!

Posted By Chris on January 10, 2008, 10:58 AM

Yes, there should be a family section on plans so that kids and their parents don't disturb the other paying nondisruptive flying public. It is been my experience that parents on airplanes do not control their kids and allow them to misbehave; this is very disturbing to unsuspecting flyers who do not know they would be seated next to people who allow such nonsense.

Posted By Cindy on January 10, 2008, 12:12 PM

as long as we can also so limit young adults who are loud and obnoxious - older adults who are also loud and obnoxious/ drunk / sexist/ vulgar, etc., from restaurants and flights as well - sounds good to me!

Posted By constance on January 10, 2008, 12:18 PM

YES, PLEASE!

I can't tell you the number of times I've been on planes and in restaurants where poorly parented children have ruined the experience for all.

And in the case of planes, one flight on Austrian Air was so bad it was truly UN-SAFE! About 10-12 children, aging from about 3-12, ran amok up and down the aisles for the entire flight, save take-off and landing! After enduring this for about the 1st two hours, I asked one of the flight attendants if she could do something about it. She said, "Vell, you know it's ferry hahd to travel vit shildren." I was shocked! I said, "No it isn't. Not when you're parenting them." I also stated that my concern was not for the children's safety, but mine. What would have happened if we had hit the ever popular remain-in-your-seats-with-the -seat-belt-securely-fastened recommendations... "unexpected turbulence"!??? Those children could have become missiles and hit ME! Her response? "Vell, I see vat I can do..." She made her way to the front of the plane and did.... NOTHING. I and the other 200 passengers had to endure another 5 hours of out-of-control children. I have never flown Austrian Airlines again. I'd rather swim home!

It seems to be getting worse and worse these days. And while I can certainly feel GREAT sympathy for a parent who is attempting to parent their child.... the vast majority of the incidents I have witnessed in my 8-year road warrior career have been the result of poor or inattentive parenting.

I sincerely hope that more airlines and restaurants follow AirTran's example and start expecting civilized behaviour of all customers. If this seems an impossible task, then have sections of the plane (not just those too expensive for families! - 1st and business) that are for adults only!

Posted By Dawn on January 10, 2008, 12:29 PM

I'm with Constance. My son was better behaved as a child than a lot of adults I know. He still is at twenty. Instead of applying the rule to an age class, just apply it to behaviors. This is just any other -ism, including the problems associated with affirmative action. Apply ameliorative rules to economic classes rather than to races and no one would worry about reverse racism. This is much the same thing. Focus on the feature of the person that's relevant, not the feature that's irrelevant to the problem. They're just not thinking logically.

Posted By Jane on January 10, 2008, 12:30 PM

As more and more states are banning smoking from buildings completely, maybe we should have "children/no children" areas so that everyone can enjoy themselves. I think it is great that some airports have play equipment in the terminals for children to play on between flights. I am also for putting children near the front of the plane so they can enter last and exit first - less time in the confined area!

Posted By Lynn on January 10, 2008, 12:33 PM

Please remember that good behavior in public places is LEARNED BEHAVIOR. As a former hotel worker and mom, I have seen plenty of adults demonstrate behavior worse than ANY pre-schooler.
Parents do need to expose their children to these situations, but carefully and respectfully of the others around them. Preparation for first or early flights should start weeks before, talking through what is expected of the child. I have been on many flights with my children. Blessedly, many fellow travelers have been surprized to find that my kids were sitting behind them the entire flight. I also know all too well how miserable even the shortest flight can be with rowdy fellow passengers.
There must be a little more understanding, and a bit more planning on everyone's part. I always bring earplugs.

Posted By Anne on January 10, 2008, 12:35 PM

Isn't this discrimination based on age? Isn't it restricting the actions of one group of people based on the prejudices of another group? Members of one group (old farts) want to impose limitations on members of another group (children). Isn't that exactly what all the fuss is about for women, blacks, gays, Jews, the elderly, the disabled, Palestinians,...? Sure, kick every last one of the children out. After all, every last one of them is unruly, dirty, loud, ungrateful, and hyperactive (except, of course, mine). It's one thing to kick an unruly kid off of a plane, but it's quite another to kick all kids off a plane because one was unruly. It's usually the most defenseless members of society that get discriminated against, and this certainly fits the pattern. You've all been very, very naughty so now you have to go to bed without your supper!!!

Posted By Bob on January 10, 2008, 12:37 PM

It is extremely annoying to sit on an airplane for hours with a child next to you who screams in your ear the entire time. There should be a separate section for people with young children so the rest of the public can fly in peace.

Posted By Barbara on January 10, 2008, 12:37 PM

I have been wanting establishments to enforce this rule for YEARS! Even retail stores should have an adult-only night. It would be nice to shop without having to listen to screaming children.

I remember a flight from Rome, Italy to NY where a child screamed, literally, the entire flight. When the plane landed, everyone clapped. I was sympathetic to the parents for the first 5 minutes of the child screaming, but after an hour and then three hours, and more, I had enough.

I would welcome and highly support adult-only flights, movies, restaurants, and stores!

Posted By Keri Kowski on January 10, 2008, 12:43 PM

It is not hard to figure out which restaurants are Family Friendly, which ones are not. It is not even a real issue for kids to be in any restaurant if they behave well. The real issue is people who bring misbehaving children to a dining establishment do not want to admit that the problem is generated at their end, not the restaurant, and unfortunately, many resort to demonizing the idea of "kids-free" before running a self-check on proper etiquettes.

Air travel is a different issue. I think most people feel bother by children on board for the seemingly uncountable noise level. However, it would seem extreme to bar children from air traveling. An interesting idea is to create a “kids-free” class, somewhere between couch and business. I think there will be people willing to pay the price for it.

Posted By D on January 10, 2008, 12:51 PM

The problem is not really the childs fault. The fault lies with the parents. Airtran SHOULD be within it's rights to remove the passengers WITHOUT COMPENSATION BECAUSE THE PARENTS HAVE NO BUSINESS HAVING CHILDREN IF THEY CAN'T CORRECTLY PARENT THEM.

Posted By Coaach O on January 10, 2008, 12:59 PM

I agree with kid free zones in airlines and/or restaurants. I think it's simple...for restaurants, if there's no children's menu, DON'T BRING THE KIDS. On an airplane, having a children's zone or even flights specifically designated as adult only would be better. I know it's tough for parents to get away without the kids. But for those of us who succeed, we don't want to have to put up with the added disruption of yours.

Posted By Sam on January 10, 2008, 1:17 PM

I'm all in favor of adults only dining. I required good table manners of my four children, but they were still kids. I seldom took them to upscale restaurants.

Once, we had lunch at a nice Italian restaurant at Epcot and my son misbehaved. After a warning, we made him pay for his own lunch with his spending money. It made a big impression on him and all the rest. We still say, "Ask your brother what happens if you misbehave in a restaurant." We haven't had to make anybody else pay.

p.s. We gave back the money. The shock value was enough of a lesson.

Posted By Sharon Mason on January 10, 2008, 1:23 PM

I flew on one of those horror flights described below, from Ireland to NY. It was an overnight flight, and while everyone was trying to sleep, these absolute BRATS were running up and down the isles, throwing things at each other (one of the objects hit me), stepping on peoples feet, etc. Their overgrown adolescent parents sat chatting and drinking in their punk rock star outfits, oblivious to their monster's behaviour. The flight attendants were too busy partying together in the back to give a damn. Needless to say, few of us got any sleep. What is ADD really? Adult discipline disorder!

Posted By elizalexus on January 10, 2008, 1:24 PM

Pricey elegant restaurants should also be child free or have separate family rooms. I cannot tell you how many romantic quiet dinners, which we were paying top dollar for, have been ruined by people bringing along their crying babies and loud rambunctious kids in the late evening. The kids typically run around the restaurant nearly tripping up wait staff with trays (which could have injured the child, the waiter and others). If you want to bring your overindulged spoiled brats out in public for dinner, take them to a family restaurant like Denny's or Shoneys or whatever, not ruining other people's dining experience which they have essentially wasted their money on. Just more narcissistic selfishness on the part of these parents with too much money and not enough sense or consideration for others.

Posted By Isabelle on January 10, 2008, 1:32 PM

It seems that Asian children on flights are taught how to behave; I've never seen any screaming and running up and down the aisles from them. Maybe their parents teach them how to behave, while American and European parents don't care.

Posted By Kay Fulgham on January 10, 2008, 1:49 PM

I think all airplanes should seat adults with their children in one area of the plane together. Leaving the rest of the plane in peace.

Posted By C.Kish on January 10, 2008, 1:50 PM

I wish and hope and pray that the airlines would implement children only aisles(with their parents), so they don't annoy people who want to relax.The flight attendants refuse to do anything, as I have had many a trip ruined by kids whos parents do nothing.Also expensive restaurants.I dont want to spend a fortune, to have my night out with my hubby ruined.Hotels also!I have 2 grandchildren, i do love kids, but when you get older and want some alone,peaceful time,theres a time and place for children

Posted By Lynne on January 10, 2008, 1:51 PM

I have sat in restaurants trying to talk to my husband (and these are not family restaurants or chains, but expensive, special event restaurants) where noisy, unbehaving children have ruined my evening. My only comment is: Doesn't anyone hire a babysitter any longer? Don't these parents want to enjoy a night out alone and get to know each other once again? Isn't it cheaper to pay for a babysitter than for, at most, half-eaten meals?

Posted By Karyn on January 10, 2008, 1:58 PM

Yes...there should be places where adults can enjoy themselves without children present. We are in overly permissive times and parents exercise minimal if any control over their offspring. In essence, civility is what we are asking for…and less than civil behavior from anyone should not be tolerated anywhere.
BTW Jane…how can you mention affirmative action and bad parenting in the same breath? Do your homework regarding the definition and meaning of both.

Posted By 27-Year Road Warrior on January 10, 2008, 1:59 PM

short answer. YES

Posted By ellen on January 10, 2008, 2:15 PM

Definitely, there should be restaurants that do not allow children or segregate children. When I pay upwards of $100 plus for a meal for two without alcohol, I do not want to hear children or people on cellphones at the next booth. Chuck e cheese exists for a reason--restaurants have certain markets. Get a babysitter! Kids get bored in stuffy establishments. While you're at it, please dress decently.

On planes, I am torn--that they allow cats on planes in carriers yet ban peanuts should make all allergy sufferers angrier than any out of control child! I think airlines should do more to educate parents on how to deal with kids on board and to require them to buy a seat (perhaps at reduced cost for babies). Not only are they unsafe themselves in a lap, but they are missiles and squirming imposes on the stranger in the next seat! Why should the rules be different for cars and airplanes? Furthermore, I am fed up with parents who let their kids wander the aisles and kick the seatback, but agree, some adults are worse and should know better!

That said, I am expecting a baby in 2 months and travel a lot. I plan on buying her a seat (it's no secret, children cost money!) for her car seat and to bring cheap earplugs for those in the vicinity in case she's inconsolable during the flight.

Posted By Tracy on January 10, 2008, 2:23 PM

There used to be a restaurant in FL that had a blackboard outside that said: "Adult dinner $12.95, Children's dinner $22.95. Because of all the antiques, we prefer that you take your children to the MacDonals in town." It's the only restaurant I've seen that had the nerve to do this.

Posted By Robin Caltabiano on January 10, 2008, 2:29 PM

I have to say, this is right on. Don't whine to me about racism/discrimination. That's just a crutch you're trying to use.

I fly business class, and I am getting truly fed up with the increased presence of families with children who scream and yell and cry during the flight. I pay a LOT of money for a good comfortable, PEACEFUL experience, and I do not believe I should have to listen to the kids or even other passengers act like complete idiots. I'm tired of the airlines reminding me that the kids have rights too. What about my rights to have some peace and quiet on transatlantic or transpacific flights?

In my not so humble opinion, families with children should be completely barred from business and first class. End of story.

As far as restaurants go, there should be restaurants where children are not allowed. I also do not believe children should be present in bars of any kind.

Thanks for hearing my diatribe.

Posted By Albert on January 10, 2008, 2:51 PM

Think about all of the times you've been bothered by adults in restaurants and on planes. More times than by kids, I'll bet. The loud couple behind you that talk incessantly, the smelly guy next to you, the people walking down the aisle that hit your arm, the man that moves the back of your seat whenever he gets his fat butt up, the smoker constantly hacking pieces of his lung up, the guy on his 3rd beer that won't stop burping, the crotch in your face as they put luggage overhead. Why aren't we banning adults? They are more troublesome than kids if for no other reason than there are so darn many of them. People are far too willing to restrict the activity of any group of which they are not a member. There is a word for that.

Posted By Bob on January 10, 2008, 3:18 PM

Hi there

I am reading these comments and am shocked. My husband and I travelled a lot before having children and travel AND dine with our 14 month old son. We have taken him on 14 flights and as long as we have milk, food, snacks, books and toys, he naps, eats and behaves very well. So well, people have said "I can't believe their is a baby sitting there". Perhaps parents aren't taking the right steps to entertain and take care of their children when they fly. As far as dining out, the same applies, I don't think children should be at fine dining establishments if they can't sit still and remain reasonably quiet. Again, bring books, toys and things to entertain your child and they should do fine in a restaurant. Or, do what we do, eat at a nice restaurant with your children at 5 or 5:30. Banning children from airplanes and restaurants would be criminal. We travel with our son and take him out to eat so he can learn how to enjoy these things.

Posted By SB on January 10, 2008, 3:33 PM

There are public places and there are private places. There is public transportation and there is private transportation. If your temperament is such that you can't tolerate certain members of the public, maybe private is a better place for you. If you can't afford private, oh well, join the crowd.

Posted By bob on January 10, 2008, 3:47 PM

Young children won't learn how to behave in social settings if not exposed to them. Have you ever had to fly with a young child that had an ear infection? It is extremely painful making it difficult to console the best mannered child. My point is that you may not know the entire story when pre-judging a crying infant or child on an airplane. Parents need to be able to travel and eat out too and should not be told where they are allowed to take their children. If parents use common sence and instill good behavior in their children this wouldn't be an issue. Children are so precious and allowing our children to learn through experiences is really invaluble to our society. Isn't it?

Posted By Michele on January 10, 2008, 3:52 PM

It might be a better idea to ban the parents until they teach their children how to behave in public places. After all, children do learn by example and should not be punished by their parents faults.

Posted By edf on January 10, 2008, 3:54 PM

I travel often and on a recent flight a little girl seated right in back of me continued to scream...and her mother was doing nothing about it. We hadn't even taken off!. After a while, I turned around and looked the little girl in the eyes and told her to stop screaming. Of course she stared at me, an adult who scolded her! Her mother made excuses for her...that she was afraid. I told her to hold the little girls hand to ensure her that all was well. We never heard another peep from the little girl!

Posted By eileen sullivan on January 10, 2008, 3:59 PM

When my daughter was only 18 months, I started teaching her outside manners, starting at the Golden Arches. As her good behavior progressed, I was able to take her to four and five star restaurants by the time she was four...as long as we didn't stay over an hour and a half. People marveled at her behavior. Good behavior can be taught...if parents were inclined to do so.

Posted By Manay on January 10, 2008, 4:12 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with the child-free idea. As a single man in my 20's there is nothing more annoying than traveling and dealing with loud, disruptive kids with parents who don't seem to mind their actions. Some of us like to travel without all the commotion, and if we can add a pet-free zone to some places that would be even better.

Posted By Alden on January 10, 2008, 4:57 PM

Having endured flights with children behind me kicking the back of my seat, I can only agree with the sentiments expressed by so many others, BUT, the real problem is of course the parents, who should be added to the "No Fly" lists!

The woman who started by taking her children to fast food places and then working up to 5-star restaurants has the right idea. I know, because I did the same thing. Children CAN be taught manners. It takes time, and it takes disciplined parents. Sadly, too many parents are not disciplined, and are not willing to take the time and make the effort to teach their children. Whether it is laziness or something else, the result is children only their own parents want to be around.

Posted By Margaret on January 10, 2008, 5:55 PM

Totally agree......adults only flights or....with behaved and quiet childern......I have been on too many flights with screamers....+ ...kicking of seat backs etc....whats worse the parents do not correct the
child.....our payment for a ticket should not include unruly crying young childern......perhaps a seperate sound proof..area.

Posted By Ron on January 10, 2008, 6:58 PM

as a former teacher, it is all about the parents and what THEY teach/don't teach their kids...and COMMON consideration for others!

I go out of my way to commend parents when I see a well behaved child at a restaurant/while travelling...but PLEASE keep the kids out of bars...it is inappropriate and we all need a kid free zone!

Posted By lf jackson on January 10, 2008, 7:21 PM

I absolutely cringe when I find I'm seated next to anyone under 10 on a plane. My last trip, a 9 hour flight to Hawaii, had a 4 year old leaning over the back of his seat, tossing M&M's at the person behind him. The kids parent sat there reading a book! When an attendant asked that the kid be buckled in, the kid repeatedly kicked the seat in front of him back and forth with each foot, while Mom turned the pages in her book. Give these obnoxious parents their own seating. If you're travelling with kids, section them off. No one paying for these high air fares should have to endure screeching, kicking, running kids, just because their parents bought them a seat.

Posted By Marilyn Hardesty on January 10, 2008, 7:52 PM

I think the reason it has come down to children being banned in certain places is the same reason we have seat belt laws. If parents were smart enough to buckle thier children in safety seats and make them stay we would not need laws. However parents do not stand up to children and make them do things they should and respect other people. A child kicking the back of an airline seat is not the fault of the child, it is the fault of the parent..so yes, it would be nice to have nice calm plane rides and resturants without children screaming and jumping around. Oh, and yes, I have children and grandchildren. But if they misbehave I remove them from the area, or they dont go again.

Posted By valari on January 10, 2008, 9:37 PM

Considering, 20 years ago, I would not have suggested such an idea. Today, however, it is a different situation. Parents, CHOOSE, to allow their children to misbehave. It is not the fault of the kids, but of the parents. So, yes, alsolutely,there should be, restaurants, in which children are restricted.

Posted By Charlene Rush on January 10, 2008, 11:12 PM

I have always asserted, that, if I owned a restaurant, my CHILDRENS' MENU would be double the adult's price.

Posted By Charles Ferguson on January 11, 2008, 1:19 AM

Yes, PLEASE. There are times they need to be disallowed. The reality is, way too many so-called adults don't know how to train their children. So if banning the kids from SOME events/flights, etc. means their manner-challenged parents or grandparents aren't along, that's wonderful. [And that includes the snooty, arrogant and unconcerned-about-others parents who act like I'm in the wrong for asking that they be quite or sit down.]

Posted By Kay on January 11, 2008, 7:12 AM

I have definitely endured flights with screaming kids whose parents seemingly did nothing to help the situation. I'm also a parent with 2 small children and a husband with family overseas, so we do have to go on long flights to visit them. I make sure I am well prepared (lots of snacks, books, toys, and a touch of Benedryl) to make the flights go as easily as possible for everyone.

To me, flight attendants and the airlines need to deal with the behaviors individually instead of banning a group or seating them somewhere else. What if we need to fly, and the "children's area" is booked for that flight? We only have one flight a day to our destination to visit my husband's family, this could set us back several days, or we could just have to cancel altogether. Banning children from the flights is punishing a large group of people based on the irresponsible actions of a few, and I work hard to not be one of those few. In that case, why not ban alcohol, since many adults get drunk on the planes (or before getting on)? Sorry, guys, but flying is not the most pleasant experience, we just have to make the best of it.

Posted By Maureen on January 11, 2008, 8:40 AM

You are all so full of yourselves. I wonder how "well behaved" you truely are!

Posted By MR on January 11, 2008, 8:48 AM

I agree with many of these comments, but mostly with SB who basically says that children will NEVER learn how to behave in public unless they are taken out and taught. Very young children need to have distractions for before and after the meal itself, but if you wait until a child is 10 to take her on an airplane or to a restaurant other than one with a climbing apparatus, that child will have no idea of what is acceptable in public. I am a mother of 3 and have taken my children to every place imaginable: 4-star restaurants in NYC and San Francisco, live theater at the earliest possible age (usually 5), movie theaters literally from infancy, and long airplane trips. They have understood from day 1 that there are expectations for their behavior and if they can't meet the expectations, they are immediately removed (which might mean mom or dad enjoys the rest of the meal in the car) so as not to disturb the rest of their party or other diners, etc. You obviously can't do that in an airplane, but if kids learn early on that certain places require certain behavior standards, plane trips are no problem. All that said, I have no problem with child-free zones as well!

Posted By Carolyn on January 11, 2008, 9:44 AM

There should be 'Adult Safe Zones' whenever possible in close quarters like restaurants and planes, and.....
adults acting like spoiled children should not be permitted also!!!

Obnoxious behavior by any age should not have to be tolerated by the public.

One method to decrease obnoxious behavior in a restaurant is to inform the waiter or manager that there will be no $ tip if the offending party is not dealt with.

Posted By ray anderson on January 11, 2008, 11:40 AM

I like to walk by the sleeping parent whose kid(s) are terrorizing the plane and WAKE them up.

These alternatives are not perfect but at least you have the satisfaction of trying to stop the problem that no one else has the courage to do.

Posted By Ray on January 11, 2008, 11:52 AM

Wow. I'm shocked by the number of people who automatically attribute a child behaving poorly on a plane to bad parenting. My son is a little under two, but a frequent flier. He's been well-schooled in how to behave on a plane and 90% of the time, he's a model passenger. But, there's also going to be that one flight in ten where he's, well, a toddler. And no amount of books, toys, dvds, stories, snacks or games (believe me, we pack them all) is going to change the fact that he's unhappy and wants to cry or whine about it.
I understand being frustrated with parents who completely ignore their child's poor behavior, but many of us are trying awfully hard and not always succeeding. For that reason, I'd love to see a child-free plane section. It would take the pressure off a little. Until then, if anyone can truly say their child has never misbehaved, please let me know when your parenting book is coming out, because I must be missing something.

Posted By AreWeThereYet? on January 11, 2008, 1:09 PM

I think the problem comes from the parents' attitude that their kid is so cute and charming, everybody MUST be entertained by his or her antics. Children in restaurants should be expected to stay in their seats and not run around to other tables, disturbing other patrons. I cannot tell you the number of times a random child in a restaurant or cafe has come up to me to show me a toy or so say, "hi" or whatever. You, parent, might think I should be delighted by your little rapscallian, but I am not. I am trying to converse with the people with whom I am dining, or, if alone, am probably trying to read. Once, when I gently suggested to a child that she return to her table, she burst into tears and the parents got angry with me! Meanwhile, I notice that the parents (or guardians) of these children are somehow able to enjoy their own adult time because they expect everybody else in the place to watch after their children. I have been known to compliment parents whose children are well-behaved. Positive reinforcement can't hurt.

Posted By Alyssa on January 11, 2008, 4:39 PM

Personally, I do not like spending five hous on a plane with some child kicking the back of my seat. Nor do I enjoy children getting in and out of their seats and running in the aisle, let alone listening to a baby cry and fuss for hours in a seat near me. Children should be seated in the last few rows of the plane.

I had children and in no way did they mis-behave or be loud like they do now.
When we go out to dinner, I want to enjoy my meal in a nice quiet atmosphere. i'm not paying to hear a child sit and cry and cause problems.

I wish more restaurants would bad children under a certain age.

Posted By misty on January 11, 2008, 6:54 PM

It is incredable that restaurants or airlines even need to ponder the question. Common sense dictates that unruley kids and their parents should be in their own areas. Restaurants should have the brains to put families with kids in one area, as much as possible and/or the right to ask disruptive families to leave. Planes should have a stated announcement that the aisles can not be used as playgrounds and parents are responsible for keeping their kids under control. People that are affected by the disturbances should speak up, also, or nothing usually happens to change the behavior.

Posted By Edward on January 12, 2008, 12:46 PM

I just took a 6+ hour plane flight that had 8 or 10 infants/toddlers spread throughout the plane and at any given time about half of them were crying/screaming. Nearly all of the parents had smiles on their faces as if to say "he is just expressing himself" or they were not paying any attention to the child.
SO, lets put all of the folks with children under 5 years of age in the back of the plane where they can enjoy each others company and not bother so many other folks. And don't say that is discrimination because we did it with the smokers!

Posted By Charles M Carter on January 12, 2008, 4:12 PM

We were once children and someone felt that way about us. Wow, how insensitive. Train your children on etiquette instead of allowing others to say yes to banning. Spend more quality time. How and when will they ever learn. I'm against the banning. Ban the parents too then.

Posted By D M Newton on January 13, 2008, 4:29 PM

I traveled frequently as a child and I would have been mortified to behave the way today's children act in public.

I have sympathy for the lone parent traveling with a child or two and all their assorted paraphenalia, but the stress of traveling with children is no reason to tolerate bad behavior. A lot of parents don't seem to try and provide any type of control over their offspring; I notice this not only in airports and airlines, but also in grocery stores, malls, and church. It no longer appears to be common practice to teach children what type of behavior is considered acceptable in public or around strangers.

Because of this, I definitely wish airlines would (at a minimum) limit children under 12 or so to their own section of the plane so child-free travelers aren't subjected to children running up and down aisles, kicking seats, crying, or screaming. Even better would be if airlines offered "children-free" flights during peak travel times for business travelers.

Posted By Evelyn on January 14, 2008, 12:54 PM

My family took at least three major vacations a year. I always received compliments about the behavior of my children and many times was asked how I get them to behave. I taught them at home. Children WILL act out in public just like they do at home. They don't know the difference, heck, many adults don't. I, too, appreciate going to dinner with just adults. Many times I have tried to enjoy a nice dinner with my husband, in a nice restaurant, and have had rude parents allow their obnoxious children to disrupt everyone in the restaurant. The parents should be kicked out if they can't keep their chilren under control. As much as I have flown, I've been fortunate to only have about a half dozen children kicking my seat throughout most of the flight. One time, a little girl was actually pounding my seat with her feet. I kept looking back and, after about an hour, the mother turned to her daughter and said, "I think you should stop kicking the seat before that lady gets angry with you." So, the mother was completely aware of her daughters actions. The only part about separating parents with children from the rest of the group is people like me who have very well behaved children, it's not fair to those children that they should have to put up with misbehaving children either. Maybe changing seats once the flight takes off and the flight attendants SHOULD speak up for the rest of the people on the plane who deserve a comfortable and peaceful ride.

Posted By Lori on January 14, 2008, 1:22 PM

As a frequent global traveler on all modes of transportation I have travelled with children from infancy to teenagers in all classes of service and with their company in the gamut of dining establishments.

My experience is I have encountered much more unacceptable behavior from adults.

Posted By Dr. J. Berger on January 14, 2008, 2:16 PM

I am a child of a geologist who worked all over the world; therefore, I was taken on international flights since the time I was 18 months old. Somehow, my mother was able to control our behavior (by clever distractions, bribes, and swift delivery of appropriate discipline) and we never ever became a nuisance to other passengers. Additionally, as we were able to see my father about 3-4 times per year, we definitely took dinners at the upscale restaurants since very early age. Again, my mother's tactics worked...

I totally agree that traveling with a sick child is difficult but that is why travel insurance was invented! If your child happens to be sick, it is prudent to consider cancelling the trip - this simple action will benefit your child by preventing exposure to additional germs and allow other passengers to travel in peace.

I am a mother myself and my child started to travel by air when he was less than two years and, thankfully, there was never any problems with his behavior...

In regards to the restaurants: I've applied the technique used by other posters and started with the family-friendly places, early dinners in more upscale establishments and gradual progression to more challenging places... My child is 8 years old now and he traveled the world, seen places, and eaten in the best restaurants both in the US and abroad. I am very happy that I was able to give him these experiences and he is able to appreciate them. I think that sequestering people who travel with kids to specific areas should be initiated with caution: I, for one, definitely would not want to be seated next to the screaming toddler and neither is my well behaved child!

In regards to the business/first class travel: with all respect to the business travelers (I am an owner of the multi-state company and travel extensively), I do not think that business class is an extension of your personal study so all paying passengers have the same rights. If I go on vacation, I am definitely taking my child and traveling first class! There should be a distinction between age and inappropriate behavior and, in addition to parents'resposibilities, airline should also be involved in addressing problems.

Unfortunately, it takes a huge effort to get the airline personnel to act with any authority. I do take liberty to politely ask parents to mind their children and intercept children running in the aisles. So far I was lucky and did not meet the wrath of disgrantled parents.. Probably, because my child is either standing right next to me or sitting in his own seat...

Posted By Yanna on January 14, 2008, 2:47 PM

We were all children once, what makes you any better than my child? How do you know if you never cried as a baby on a plane/train/in a resaurant? NEWSBREAK: BABIES CRY! Hello!!

I do think there's a difference between infants/toddlers and older children when it comes to traveling. Children under the age of 3 have a harder time understanding that you have to stay in your seat for 8 hours and be quiet. Also, infants can't tell you if their ears hurt or if their uncomfortable. I've been given horrible looks, overheard people talking about my 10 month old baby, been asked to "Please move to the back of the plane" or "Please keep your baby quiet"...like I want my baby to cry! Who's being more childish in this situation? The baby who's ears are hurting or the adult in the next row who forgot their earplugs? Maybe you should move to the back of the plane!

Hmmm...move to the back of the plane...sounds like discrimination to me!!

Posted By Sari on January 14, 2008, 2:49 PM

I've flown with my 4 children on multiple cross country flights as well as cross Atlantic flights, and not once have any of them caused a disruption. We plan ahead, of course, and bring snacks, books, music, games, as well as info/travel guides for the places we're about to visit. Like everyone else on the plane, I want to have a pleasant flight. Several adults that I've had the displeasure of sitting next to have produced far less enjoyable experiences.

As for restaurants for adults only...just this weekend, my husband and I had gone to dinner, when an overly intoxicated patron from another table, walked over to me, picked up MY fork and proceeded to eat my dinner. Which I paid for.
This guy was in his mid 20s. So much for maturity...I'd rather spend time eating with children. At least they're cute.

Regarding Disney's Victoria & Albert's restaurant, I understand that diners should expect to pay about $125 per person. If I'm going to pay that much for a meal, it's NOT going to be in Disney World!

Posted By Karen on January 14, 2008, 3:59 PM

I don't think they should ban kids, they should just ENFORCE RULES and make THE PARENTS RESPONSIBLE! I have four kids, all under 12 and I have been thanked so many times by people on planes and in restaurants because my children were seated while other kids were screaming, running down the ailse or in one case rubbing soap fron the airplane lavatory on peoples armrests. Fine the parents or ask them to leave. I have stressed manners (quiet restaurant voices, staying seated ect.) since my kids were three. Yes, three. It's not impossible, it's called responsible parenting! By the way, I love it when my kids ask why adults talk during theater performances when it's rude :)

Posted By Patricia Cosby on January 14, 2008, 6:22 PM

I'm very allergic to dogs. So I add that dogs or cats on a plane are unacceptable. The asthma attacks are life-threatening and can be prevented by having the animal travel elsewhere. (Yes I take much medication and ALWAYS carry an inhaler.)
Prefers to stay alive and yet needs to visit family. w

Posted By Wanda Grace on January 14, 2008, 7:07 PM

I recall going to Morton's Steakhouse for a very nice dinner (about $125+ per person) There was a table across from us with a family seated there (mama bear, papa bear and two baby bears). The children were exceptionally well behaved and no problem at all. Three tables over was a family with three devils. While dad sat there like a bump on a log, mom was attempting to negotiate with her four-year-old (are you out of your mind?) as the remaining two demons went running about this 5-star restaurant as if they were in a playground.

Two weeks ago I took a coast to coast flight from Hartford CT to Oakland CA. Thank goodness we landed in Chicago and the mother and her child from hell could get off the plane. Sadly, she sent an army of dissidents to take her place - not one, not two... but eight screaming tykes and their parents who couldn't parent if they had a comic book showing them how!

I fault the parents, an overly promiscuous society, the cancer of non-responsibility that plagues our modern day society. I fault establishment that don't have the brains to enforce the rule of common sense (since the parents clearly left theirs at home) in their businesses for fear of losing a customer. Believe me, if that little angel from hades gets hurt because of their antics, the business will pay dearly in the lawsuit that surely will follow! I fault Dr Spock and his ilk who sold an entire culture on how to be your child's best friend - instead of a responsible parent.

Yes, Yes - a thousand times YES. Give me a brat free environment and I'll choose it regardless of the cost!

Posted By Layne on January 15, 2008, 1:27 AM

I am torn about this issue and I feel the most sorry for these annoying children. What kind of adults and parents will they become with their parents being so incompetent and uncaring. It is so easy to be a parent but it takes supreme effort to be a good parent. My children are 13 and 19 and have both been traveling since birth. We started exposing them early to museums, restaurants, air travel, cities, and the use of proper manners. If you travel with children you must do age appropriate activities and make your behavior expections known. We taught our children that their behavior, loudness of voice, manners, and activity level could have an adverse effect on other peoples enjoyment. Start early, work up to bigger things, and set your expectations accordingly. Our daughter was born in Europe and we took many months of vacation every year. When our daughter was still small enough to fit in a baby carrier there were many times that we were unable to complete a meal. If she started crying and couldn't be consoled we would pay our bill and leave, no matter where we were in the meal. We paid for a lot of uneaten food. We were just not willing to ruin other peoples enjoyment of their evening out. Was it worth it? Yes because more times than not, she was perfect and we did get to experience the place of our choice. Parents need to start early to expose their children to various situations. I also think that polite manners are not being taught to most young children. We always treated our children as if they had a brain and were capable of perfect behavior. We made our expectations very clear from the beginning of their lives and they have always behaved beautifully in public.
I understand that babies on planes can have ear infections and there is really nothing to console them. We always carry earplusgs when traveling and not just for loud children but also for obnoxious, snoring, coughing, or sneezing adults. Perhaps airlines could start handing out earplugs to passengers. So, should there be separate places for parents with kids or should kids be banned? I am leaning towards no. I wish there could be a rule about behavior that was not age specific. If airlines, restaurants, museums, and other places could be allowed to force familes with unruly children or uncivilized adults to leave, it would be to all our benefits. These people should not receive compensation. Perhaps this would cause parents to think twice about where they would take their children. I will someday be a grandparent and am looking forward to traveling and experiencing many restaurant meals with my grandchildren. I do not want to be excluded from places that they are capable of visiting. I don't think there is a solution that will please everyone. It really is an issue of parents taking responsibility for their children and raising them to take their place in society.
D

Posted By D on January 15, 2008, 1:05 PM

Absolutely!! Please and soon... don't get me wrong I love kids, but I don't have any and don't plan to for a while yet. So to subject a person without kids to long periods of yelling, screaming, crying, kicking.... and so on SUCKS!! The whole idea of me dining out or taking 8-hour flight to go on vacation is to relax which is virtually impossible when there are kids present whose parents can't or won't make them behave. By the time I get off the plane I am more frazzled than when I got on and have paid a few hundred dollars and up for the "pleasure" of it. I understand that parents need to get out too and sometimes the children have to come with but it's really ignorant and self-absorbed of them to think that we should (as non-parents) have to tolerate them too! It is one thing if it's an open space and you can get away, but it's completely different when in an enclosed space that you're actually paying a decent amount of money for. Unfortunately it comes down to respect of others and not many have that capability and parents with children are a big chunk of the population, and God forbid you should correct their child's behavior when they wont. So let's give them a space that releases them for any cupability in having control of their kids and that doesn't have to affect us.

Posted By Jessica on January 15, 2008, 4:58 PM

If we assume that things will never change and obnoxious children and adults will continue to ruin the enjoyment of others then perhaps some places should be 'well behaved adults only'. I am afraid by isolating these families in separate areas we as a society are just allowing this same unacceptable behavior to continue. My children are now well behaved teens but when they were younger they still had good manners and behavior instilled in them by myelf and my husband. I can not imagine taking my well behaved and quiet kids into a special area at a restaurant or airport and being subjected to the uncontrolled and unacceptable (to me) behavior of other children. I don't believe we can punish all parents and children for the behavior of some. And as a parent I do admit that it does seem there are more misbehaved children than not. I am not sure what the answer is. I think the situation needs a lot of thought and consideration and parents need to step up to the plate and take responsibility for raising children that are not a burden on society.
D

Posted By D on January 15, 2008, 5:30 PM

I think someone said it earlier. This issue is about behavior not age. If a child is acting up, that child and parents should be kicked off or out. If it's a 90 year old the same rules apply...etc... Some parents don't even try to teach their children good habits because they think their too young to understand.

Posted By Ed on January 16, 2008, 1:33 AM

Undisciplined children are annoying PERIOD. How about trying some of these suggestions?
1) Airlines should track what flights appear to have the most problems with children. If they seem to fall within certain time periods (such as childrens' nap or bedtimes), make the cost of childrens' tickets higher for flights during that time OR restrict children from those flights.
2) Airlines could make a policy and distribute it when tickets are ordered, stating that should a person misbehave on a flight and x-amount of passengers complain to the airline, that person (or their parent) will be financially responsible for the tickets of the complaining passengers. Of course, the report would have be verified by the flight attendent.) By purchasing the tickets, you are agreing to the terms of the flight.
3) Would the airline be able to reserve a small section in the back of the plane for parents and their unruly child? If you can't discipline your child within 15 minutes, you are moved to the back of the plane.
4) Maybe the television programs should use some of the time that they expend on reporting Britney's drinking problems/shopping habits/whatever, for programs that teach parents how to train their children. Or have public service announcements that cover it and show the annoucements at least two or three times a day. Remember the ads regarding "Do you know where your children are?" Why can't we have ads that say "Have you taught your child to be respectful of others today?" or "Have you taught your child to speak politely today?" or "Have you said NO to your child today?"
5) Have you considered screaming in the ear of the child screaming on the plane? Bet that would get his/her attention!
6) Flight attentants have no problem telling me when I can't get up due to the seatbelt sign. They should be trained that when a child misbehaves, they should go to the parent and request the child be seated. Or have a rule that no child under 10 can be in the aisle without a parent beside them.

Posted By P on January 16, 2008, 2:30 AM

I have given the matter more thought and have to add that children must be taught the proper etiquette for travel. Maybe the flight attendants can have a small packet of "things to do" that are related to their adventure. I would not object to sitting with other children, but as a parent of 5 children, someone else's rude children would put me over the edge just as it does others. Truly, the only "fix" is making sure the children are being parented. Babies whose ears are uncomfortable sometimes cannot be consoled BUT parents must make every effort (bottle, pacifier, etc.)I am in favor of making sure airlines know the ages of all passengers and making sure the parents of little ones have information about flying and the airline's expectations. Moving to the back won't stop the aisle running and 'kid-free' flights are not going to be fnancially attractive or feasible for the airlines.

Posted By Nancy on January 16, 2008, 11:30 AM

I totally agree their should be flights and restaurants for familes and flights that have no one under age 12. It isn't that I don't like children or that I'm anti-children, it's that on a long haul flight to Asia, I don't want to hear a child scream the entire way. In a restaurant, when I have paid $50 for my dinner, I want atmosphere and relaxation, not a screaming child next to me. At Denny's children are fine in other locations they are not.

Posted By jennifer on January 16, 2008, 12:29 PM

First of all let me say that the trans-atlantic red-eye out of JFK with a bunch of chatty 20 something Brooklyners is far louder than the trans-pacific adoption flight I've been on. Ditto for any short hop European flight that's been delayed while the bar was open. People across the board need to learn to behave. It would be nice to include the fact that I will sleep through any turbulence or noise on a full 12 hour flight - please do not wake me up because you've had 3 liters of water and need to climb over me to pee for the 12th time. I don't ask for this to have you banned from flying but please realize that different people find different factors to be the intolerable ones. Travel comes with inconveniences but when parents take appropriate action to discipline and entertain their kids (we flew from age 5 as relatives of airline employees and had to behave like representatives of the company) there's no reason to ban children. Unsanitary factors like pets in dining establishments (except guide dogs of course) would be much more welcomed than banning kids. Along with that appropriate parenting, mom and dad should understand the level of discipline of their child and choose how and where to travel accordingly.

Posted By Ness on January 16, 2008, 5:35 PM

Yes, absolutely. I was recently at a trendy NYC breakfast spot with communal tables, about 8 - 10 to a table. The father was having a "table banging" competition with his son - and although it might have been a fun moment for them, imagine trying to sip your coffee and read a paper with the table shaking. Everyone at the table looked at each other in dismay, but no one said anything (very un-new york like, I know). Recently on a cross-country flight a woman felt she had the right to stay in the bathroom while the plane was landing because she had a screaming child and it caused a scene. They can't change the rules for unruly children!!

Posted By Frequent Traveler on January 17, 2008, 12:53 PM

PLEASE!
someone out there listen to the pleas of the traveling/dining public.
we need a section for kids on planes, for sure.
sure, it'd be great if loud adults had their own section, but that might be a bit harder to predict.
other parts of the world, australia, for one example, can clearly say that a certain aged guest is not accommodated. i've yet to see that when a hotel is listing its offerings in the US.
back to the airplane situation: all in all, most flying environments take little consideration of those flying. we're squashed, disturbed by flight attendants and travelers alike. i never flight without earplugs to use before i am allowed to wear earbuds.
i do what i can to guard against the likelihood that a neighbor will be disturbing on some level.
but it would be great to board a plane without the trepidation commonly felt, a fear of whom i'll be next to.
think about how you have or would feel if you boarded a plane to discover you are seated next to a toddler, who is sitting next to his mom, who has a babe in arms.
it's happened to me.
i could block out the sounds, but when the child's diaper was dirty, and the mom couldn't take him to the lav without abandoning her baby, i was stuck with the grossest experience to date.
i could empathize with the traveling mom, but my goodness.

Posted By sher gay on January 17, 2008, 1:28 PM

The bottom line is: it is discrimination. Will there then be restaurants and flights where you are not allowed to enter or book, unless you have children? I am shocked and appalled at such an action by Disney World. It may be an effort to attract a different crowd to the resorts (seniors and others whose travel is not tied to school holidays) but it's a despicable choice! There are many groups of people who I would ban from public places before children; certainly a crying baby is preferable to second hand smoke exposure? I would rather share an airplane aisle with a rambunctious toddler than a group of foul-mouthed spring breakers. Wouldn’t you?

Posted By Karen on January 20, 2008, 3:16 AM

PLEASE create kid free zones, airplanes, restaurants, movies, etc. There is nothing worse than going somewhere and being bothered by some little snotty nosed kid acting like a brat their parents raised them to be! Kids are fine as long as they are quiet and well behaved but I have rarely seen one. Every flight I have taken I have been extremely disturbed by some parent who ignores their screaming kid who is out of control, kicking my seat, running up and down the isles, throwing things. If it were and adult the adult would be thrown off the plane and would not be given a refund. What about the girl whose skirt was too short? Did they refund her money? NO! On more than one occasion I have had a brat kick the back of my seat and when I turned around and asked the parent to control their child I was scolded! If you can't control your kids, put them in the luggage department where they belong.

Posted By J. Davis on January 20, 2008, 3:20 PM

It is sad to me as a parent and a pediatrician that we even need to discuss child-free dining but the truth is we have to. As other commenters have pointed out, the reasons have little to do with the kids but with the parents.

In "nice" or "fancy" restaurants when kids seem to be acting out, they often do so because

1. they are being kids
2. their needs are not being met...because they are kids
3. the situation is making them uncomfortable...because they are kids
4. the food is not really kid-friendly...because they are kids

I think you see the overall theme here!

Having traveled near and far with my own children since they were very young, I can understand wanting to eat at some of the nicer places. But, it is no fun for parent or child when the limits have been reached for the kid. So, parents, go kid-friendly all around when traveling with kids. And, safe the "nice" places for when you have a sitter or are traveling alone!

So, in summary, I'm in favor of adult-only venues while vacationing. That's the only way to protect the kids from their parents and to protect those of us looking for a kid-free night to have it.

Dr. Gwenn

Posted By DrGwenn on January 23, 2008, 10:42 AM

I have a child myself and my daughter is my whole life, but, she was brought up to respect other people. When we went to a restaurant, she never screamed, carried on and acted like a adult. If she started to scream or carry on, etc., I immediatelly left the restaurant. I don't believe other people should have to put up with this. I don't mind children going to restaurants or anywhere if they were taught to behave. A lot of people don't even correct these kids today. This is why they are so unruly and have no respect for others and most today are spoiled rotten. It is the parents fault, not the kids, but the parents are aware of how their child/children act. In this case, they should never bring them anywhere unless they are completely controlled. And, besides that, people who do have controlled children, sometimes, they just want to "get away" and have some quiet time with their spouse and it usually cannot be done because people are very selfish today and continue to bring their screaming, uncontrolled spoilled rotten kids with them.
There definatally should be places that are for "adults only" and that includes, especially, Vegas. Keep you're brats at home!! Please!!!
Thank you,
Elaine

Posted By Elaine on February 9, 2008, 4:07 PM

I strongly agree that there should be family sections on airplanes. I can't count the number of times I've been seated near a screaming kid on a flight. I hope other airlines follow suit and kick off rude passengers for the benefit of all passengers on board, or create a family section.

Posted By Tara on May 19, 2008, 3:47 PM

Hooray for Disney! Now, if they would extend that to a child-free day a month for the park, maybe I could talk my husband into visiting.
I have been repeatedly jabbed in the arm by a scared five-year-old flying for the first time without an adult on a plane at the end of a long week (thankfully, there were empty seats and I could move.). I have had red wine spilled in my lap by my server when an uncontrolled child ran underfoot (and the parents were annoyed I interrupted their conversation to ask them to control their child!). I have been to movies I could not hear, and been unable to enjoy resort pools because of unruly kids.
To those parents who are offended by this post, I understand your desire to travel with your family. I ask that you please understand that I do not and should not have to be with your kids.

Posted By Renee on June 1, 2008, 5:10 PM

I think people who complains about kids are just so full of themselves. I mean, get over yourselves. When I was single I used to travel at least once a month to see my girlfriend, who lived across the country. Of course I met some loud screaming kids, also when I went out with my girl to a movie or to a restaurant, but neither of us complained. When you decide to go out to a PUBLIC place, you accept that there will be other people, and you wont be able to control the way they act. If you do not wish to tolerate other people's behaviour the answer is simple: DON'T GO OUT TO A PUBLIC PLACE. Stay home, cook your self a nice meal, or else order some take out, put your favorite CD and talk the night away (asuming you have someone to talk to being so intolerant). I've found that people who complain about babies crying of acting as...well babies are often bitter people or workaholics, or yuppies, I mean selfish people who act like their **** don't stink. Leave parents alone, leave children be.

Posted By Gabriel on September 24, 2008, 6:24 PM

Absolutely there should be more adults-only places. I seriously do NOT understand where our society suddenly decided that adult-only places equal a clear mark of hatred, a rise to Segregation and Jim Crow laws directed at those younger than 18. You'd think people were burning baby bottles on people's lawns.

It's just sick and sad that people don't understand and don't care about their children anymore. Yes, I said these people who bleat and whine about their kid not being allowed somewhere don't actually care about their kids and never stop to consider the effect what they do has on their children. Guys, I know this is a shock, but there really are things that are not appropriate for children. There are things in this world they don't understand or like yet, and shouldn't be expected or forced to endure. I'm not saying lock them in a closet and not let them out in public till their 18. I'm saying I'm not going to drag my three year old son to a rated-R movie, a bar, a seminar on physics, or five star restaurant because he's not going to understand it, like it, or want to be there and he's going to scream.

Really people, Chuck E. Cheese isn't going anywhere. If you really want your kid with you everywhere you go and teach them how to sit in restaurants or movies, you're never going to run out of options. One day I'm going to take my boy to adults-only places. Not now. Right now Mommy would like to go to dinner with Daddy to a movie without listening to whining from her kid or anybody else's for whatever reason.

Posted By Laura B. on September 29, 2008, 10:03 PM

I can't believe I am reading this, I actually just had two bad experiences in the last week with a screaming toddler on a flight and four toddles yes count them four at a restaurant seated next to us! I told several people my story and always start off with "I probably sound like a bitch", because I am not anti-babies or children. I am happy to see that many other's feel the same way. I LOVE kids and my own daughter especially, but never had a discipline problem in a public place. She is only 16, and was taught from a young age how to behave when we take her out. As far as restaurant's people don't use common sense. My husband and I eat out twice a week enjoy a meal that I don't have to prepare, I expect to eat, drink and enjoy a relaxing meal without children who are running past my table or are crying next me. Many couples go out later in the evening to avoid restaurants with young children, however, it seems that a late hours does not keep adults with young children home. Maybe they should be a little more considerate and get a babysitter for a few hours. So yes, I guess you could say I would welcome adult hours only in restaurants and special seating on planes. How about parent's being parent's and correcting their kids when they are disruptive in public.

Posted By Fran on November 18, 2008, 2:46 PM

You know, I have seen this topic discussed many times, and I don't think that there will ever be any agreement amongst those who think that children should not be exposed to any dining experience other than the culinary delights offered by Chuck E. Cheese, and those who think that their own children would NEVER bother anyone when dining out or flying. The reality is that there are just too many shades of gray, so I'll just make a few points expressing what is (of course) only my own humble opinion.

* I am not opposed to restaurants restricting the age of diners. I have eaten at Victoria and Albert's with my husband (children safely ensconced with a babysitter), and definitely was looking for a grown-up experience. That being said, I think that there are some younger diners that would appreciate it, and think that the limitation to those older than 10 is just about right.

* I am not necessarily opposed to seating families with children in one section of the plane, but mostly because I can't stand the looks of sheer terror from some passengers the minute I walk on the plane with my kids (not so much now, but definitely when they were younger), and would prefer not to have to deal with that.

* I would be opposed to banning children from first and business classes. For business travelers, it is usually their company that is shelling out the big bucks for them to lord it over everyone who is stuck in steerage, so I don't buy the "I paid to be here, I don't want to have to deal with children" argument. If a family is on vacation, and wants to splurge by flying in first or business, then they should be able to do so.

* My children are pretty well-behaved, but they have had their moments, and those moments can be unpredictable. We once flew from D.C. to Denver, and my then 18-month-old cried for the entire flight. I have no idea why, and I tried everything I could do to calm her down. No one was more relieved than I was to get off of that plane.

* I agree that child-free zones in lounges are probably a good idea. We have appreciated the very few lounges that have offered family rooms. Wish more would do this.

Posted By Alice on November 25, 2008, 4:55 PM

Big High Five...Call it PARENTS TIME OUT.

I guess when you start seeing highchairs in TGI Friday's you really have to worry.

It was known one way and one way only for BIG ADULT KIDS!!!!!!!

The reason Bennigans is out of business is because they forgot who they were, an irish spin off of TGIF. Now that they figures that out and are going to re-focus the corporate model, quote unquote.

I was in Cape Cod 25 years ago, a gay restaurant got it right, NO STROLLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By eggnog on November 27, 2008, 5:35 PM

I wholeheardedly support public establishments geared for adults only. I am a single adult and travel frequently. There is nothing more IRRITATING than parents or a parent who cannot or do not choose to control their children. Further, I feel it inappropriate that any child be dragged out past 8:00 p.m. - any night/anywhere.

Posted By Bev on December 4, 2008, 4:45 PM

Yes, I am for this. I am sick to death of hearing screaming kids all the time. And please don't tell me that I should be considerate for the children and wear ear plugs. I zoned out once with a set of headphones on a train and this feral, dole bludging mother with her brood of misfits started giving "me" evil looks, as though she was jealous, because I had an escape and she didn't. Hey, lady...you brought these kids into the world, I didn't...why do I have to deal with their noise? Over time, I have learned to be prepared to block the noise out on trains and airplanes. I don't yell at anybody's kids, but I look for an escape. I feel that many of these poor parents who allow their kids to do anything they want, purposely want to ruin other people's lives by having their kids scream and act like total hellions. I, myself had a child. She's grown and in college. I have no more kids, and no I don't want to deal with yours. If the majority of these liberal, "time out type" of parents are too incompetant to raise these children right, then there should be establishments strictly for adults, where children are not allowed to enter. I don't care if it is considered segregation. Not every adult willing to pay money for a night out wants to be around and listen to a snot nosed, loudmouthed whiney rug rat all night. And they shouldn't be made to feel guilty or condemned to an eternity of hell for feeling as though they don't want to put up with your brats, either.

Posted By Tina on December 9, 2008, 10:33 PM

No, Children should be allowed. Establishments should be allowed to demand that unruly children shape up or leave. It seems that a lot of people forget that they were once that noisy brat they cannot stand now. It is hard enough to be a parent these days, we don't need a bunch of stupid "no kids allowed" rules to make it even more difficult.

Posted By Greg on December 11, 2008, 7:15 PM

sounds like a plan! where do i sign up?? i'm pleasantly suprised to see so many people on here agree. it's time we take a stand against un-ruly kids and their parents. i'd rather sit next to someone on a plane that stunk...at least they are quiet. and as for bringing earplugs for the plane....i shouldn't have to! teach your kids some manners and respect and we wouldn't be in this situation.

that's all

Posted By Amber on January 2, 2009, 1:47 PM

I couldn't agree more. I travel a lot for work, like 75% of the year, and i would love to be able to go on my vacation without having to worry about other peoples chilren. I really, really, really wish the airlines would start to offer child free flights.

Posted By Sam Dawson on January 5, 2009, 5:48 PM

As an elementary school teacher who is not a parent, I would like to say that a vacation from children is the only REAL vacation for me. I love kids when they are in my classroom, but when I cannot redirect misbehavior, I feel frustrated and stressed. I would just like to know about more places to go like "Sandals Resorts". Choosing child free options would be so lovely.

Posted By Marilyn on January 15, 2009, 5:26 PM

I took my three children to Orlando, during the week on a 9am flight. My children are 6,3 and 11 months. I received many compliments from passengers. I still had to discipline my children from speaking too loudly or kicking the chair in front of them. My husband and I divided the children and we each sat with them. We shared the lap baby and she eventually fell asleep. We brought food, drinks and toys with us. A plane with a movie, would have been great. To the young woman in front of us, rolling her eyes every five minutes. You are on a flight to ORLANDO! It is the kid capital of the World.

Posted By Lily on January 16, 2009, 12:38 PM

Huh. There are too many parents these days who do not stop their kids bad behavior. I agree with constance.... if you're going to ban kids, then ban the young "adults" with their bad manners, language, etc. They bother me more than kids do.

Posted By Megan on January 24, 2009, 2:02 AM

ABSOLUTELY!

I think that if there were child-free zones, it would make those of us who do not have children more tolerant of children when we do encounter them.

I understand that people want to travel with their children and they absolutely should. But people without children and those of us who don't want to deal with kids should at least have a few options.

I am a high school teacher and when I vacation, I want it to be as kid free as possible.

Posted By Melissa on January 24, 2009, 12:10 PM

In the trains in The Netherlands, we have so called silence zones. These are meant for people who want to work, study or read in the train. If you want to make a phone call or have a chat with those you are traveling with, just go to an other part of the train. Both silence zones and normal zones are 2nd class, so you don't pay extra charges, etcetera. I think it would be great if such silence zones existed in air planes as well, maybe for a few euros/dollars extra. I think the problem is because of the noise, not because of the fact they are children.

Posted By Jo on January 25, 2009, 6:44 AM

My honeymoon was at an adults-only resort. I didn't notice the difference--until we went for dinner at a sister hotel that didn't have such restrictions. Kids running about & screaming in the lobby, running into you, just generally being a nuisance. Parents sat at the lobby bar, drinking themselves silly and paying no mind. Pouting teenagers sitting at the dinner table, phone in hand, texting away on their unsilenced phones. Whining, crying, and whining some more.

Returning to our hotel was heaven. YES, please give us more child-free establishments and areas. Sanctuary!

Posted By KB on January 26, 2009, 11:15 AM

I'm happy to have dined at a restaurant (Palo) that bans children under 18 on a Disney cruise last summer! As a celibate who does not wish to adopt or bear children, I'm proud that the resort an hour away from me implemented that ban! besides, who wants a screaming brat ruining someone's dinner?

Posted By whizkidforte on February 8, 2009, 11:09 AM

Ironically, I just got back from a trip from my parent's house and blogged about flying with small children.

http://staciashaf.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/flying-with-small-children/

I do not think that having a child-free atmosphere somewhere is child-hating. However, traveling is a different thing. Trust me, I don't fly for the pleasure of it, I fly to see my family on the other coast. I understand that my children may be disrupting other passengers, but I'm not happy about it, and trust me, I'm stressing. Part of the problem is that while, I do think spanking is ok, when needed, you better believe I'm not going to do it in public. And trust me, the less comments and dirty looks I get, the better able I am to handle situations. You have no idea that the mother behind you might be on week 4 without her husband and little help from others. Have mercy on traveling mothers.

Posted By Stacia on March 17, 2009, 10:01 PM

I love that Gabriel thinks the appropriate course of action is for people not to go out if they don't like the totally inappropriate public behavior that kids display. Along that vein, if you don't want to get mugged, don't take the subway-cabs only,everywhere. Also, if you don't want to experience abuse from your clergy, don't ever go to church. It's not about limiting your life, it's about what is APPROPRIATE. This stuff still happens, but it SHOULDN'T. If we are diligent enough about placing the responsibility squarely on the parents head, maybe they will learn not to disregard those behaviors and act oblivious. And, by all means, if your kid is uncontrollable in public, step outside till they calm down. Yes, you may have to miss the entire dinner, movie, whatever but it's a simple social concept called courtesy.

Posted By lovekids...whenucookemright on April 20, 2009, 3:12 PM

Get a grip people there should NOT be places especially in Disney World or Disney Land that have a kid free zone. That is like asking for no kids allowed in a candy store. What is this world coming to??????

Posted By Heather on June 29, 2009, 12:06 AM

Stacia,
I'm all for having mercy, I would be especially merciful in my opinion of the selfsame mother who spanked her kids to make them behave themselves on a plane. But the point I've been making all along is thus...if you CAN'T or WON'T control your kids, you should be held responsible. If I was walking a dog in the park and it bit someone, I would be liable because I didn't control the dog, regardless of who owns the dog. Children should behave...period.
And Heather, the world is coming to be a place where people have enough stress in their lives they shouldn't have to deal with OTHER PEOPLES children, make your children behave themselves or don't bring them with you.
I am just amazed that people have absolutely no consideration for others. If you even SUGGEST that children should behave themselves and not be disruptive, you are branded a jerk. whatever happened to good manners and social grace? Oh, that's what I'M expected to exercise when I DON'T walk over and yell at the kid or parents for ruining my dinner, shopping experience, movie, etc.

Posted By lovekids...whenucookemright on September 22, 2009, 12:36 PM

I traveled extensively both with my children and on my own. My children knew what proper etiquette was at a young age and also knew if they did not behave in public there would be no public. I carried my youngest out of the store leaving groceries behind when he misbehaved. They are now 23 and 26 and still properly behaved. Parents seem to prefer to be friends with their children than parents. I am having a dinner party this evening which has been co-opted by parents who presumed it was okay to bring their children. These parents will no longer be invited to sit down adult dinners at my home.

Posted By single mom on October 11, 2009, 9:44 AM