Does this strike anyone else as a waste of time and money, or worse, something that's bound to lead to racial profiling?

Absolutely! I wrote about this on Jaunted this morning and purposely put random in sarcastic quotation marks.

Posted By Paul Brady on February 19, 2008, 5:33 PM

My immediate concern is Amtrak's statement that 'the checks will not delay anyone from boarding a train'. In that case, if someone has a nefarious motivation all they need to do is to board the train at the very last minute.

Posted By Phil Frank on February 21, 2008, 12:22 PM

Absolutely NOT. The last time I rode Amtrak was before 9/11. There was NO security. Conductors did not take tickets or even look at them until the train had left the station for 1/2 hour. One lady spent the entire time in various bathrooms reading a Bible. I am certain she did not even have a ticket. The conductor was male and probably did not even know she was on the train.

Remember, this was before 9/11. Even then, I was thinking that riding the train in the US was a terrorist's dream. Anyone could have brought anything aboard and no one would have known any different.

It is too bad there is not a happy medium. But, if Amtrak did not change their security post-9/11, then it is definitely a very weak link in the US.

Posted By Patricia Howey on February 21, 2008, 12:23 PM

This is going to sound crazy but after 9-11 I thought it was kind of silly that there wasn't the same level of scrutiny on trains as there was for airline travel. There should be the same level of security. Yes, it costs more money but eliminates the inevitible ACLU backlash that will come from random searches.

Posted By Lisa on February 21, 2008, 12:24 PM

Well,I just came back from a New York to Los Angeles train trip and realized how vulnerable we all were. I would rather be profiled any place than be blown up by fanatics, homegrown or other.If people are so sensitive I feel sorry for them, we live in a dangerous world now. I have traveled since the 60's and believe me my co travellers are different today

Posted By Barbro Nygren on February 21, 2008, 12:25 PM

Considering long-distance trains on the west coast (like the Coast Starlight and the Sunset Limited) are usually between 3-8 hours late on any given day, I don't worry much about additional delay being a problem. :P

The searches sound like they're going to be a pain, but unfortunately tighter (more intrusive) security measures don't seem to be going away any time soon.

Posted By Anne on February 21, 2008, 12:28 PM

I think it's about time that Amtrak steps up their security, although they should probably search everyone's bag (not just random searches). As someone who travels the rails all the time, I'm always thinking that its amazing that the terrorists haven't hit Amtrak yet. It defifintely is a weak link.

Posted By Jennifer on February 21, 2008, 12:34 PM

Absolutely! trains go thru areas that are a terrorist's paradise for creating fear! chemical plants, under bridges, downtown of large cities, etc. could load (1) suitcase and blow the area for miles! if we want our country protected from them, we need to protect everywhere or else we will fail.

Posted By Jim Rufus on February 21, 2008, 12:39 PM

Nothing, bottom line w/profiling you're looking at a specific group who would love to kill us. This political correct stuff must end. If your feelings are hurt so be it-you're alive.
Problem seems to be those who have not served our country complain often.

Too bad, since no draft younger generation has enjoyed a good life for the most part and have not sacrificed anything.

Now, we have people running for various office(s) without making any effort to serve our country (male and female). Just be good talkers and get in office a few years with free health care, paid (padded) expense acct and great pay raises -all paid by taxpayers.

Posted By cpg on February 21, 2008, 12:45 PM

I agree that it makes sense to do security checks anywhere that people can create havoc. Even school buildings now have increased security. Are malls next? And check everyone. I would not trust or not trust someone based just on their age, gender, ethnicity, etc. I don't live my life afraid, but we all need to be cautious and aware of our surroundings in this day and age.

Posted By Jane on February 21, 2008, 12:49 PM

I think it's a great idea. Random searches actually work well because it's very hard for terrorists to carry out a plan when they don't have control over all the variables.

Let's face it, checked baggage on airplanes isn't any safer.

Posted By The pixinator on February 21, 2008, 1:03 PM

I spent about 5 months last year riding the rails in Europe. There were rarely, if ever, officials out to search bags (only saw a random search done on a gentleman in the train in Germany, literally 3 miles from the country border). I felt completely safe and at ease riding the trains - the ticket takers check tickets not long after people get on the train, but normally only after the train is in motion. You can even buy a ticket once you're on the train, but it costs a little more.

I do have a problem with the random checks. I mean, how many people actually ride Amtrak? I've personally known one person to ride it, and last time I checked, it was way more expensive and took much longer than driving in many cases. Either way, I don't see this as a necessity as terrorists would probably fly to their destination. I also feel comfortable taking public transit in many large cities and I have never had a random search nor have I noticed any checks. I may possibly get geeked out if there were some thugs on the train that may consider trying to take my wallet barring witnesses, but that's it.

Posted By Jessica W on February 21, 2008, 1:26 PM

When I read about Amtrak's security measure racial profiling was the last thing that came to mind. The first was great, but it will still take all day to get cross country. Why is our rail service so slow and inadequate? But, I did not think profiling.

Posted By Cmpub1 on February 21, 2008, 1:28 PM

For one, I am tired of hearing about so-called "racial profiling". If the bad guys are of (whatever) ethnic group and they do (or are about to do) the crime....then so be it....they get caught... or better yet...their pack of buddies also get the message....lay off!!
Profile away I say!

Posted By JIM on February 21, 2008, 1:35 PM

About the last thing I want when I'm riding Amtrak is to have my stuff pawed thru. It's a total waste of time (mine, for one) and unlikely to uncover anything dangerous. It's totally unnecessary.

Posted By Bobette Jane on February 21, 2008, 1:36 PM

The thing about a plane is that you don't need to do a lot of damage to bring the whole thing down. I find it hard to fathom that anyone could bring enough explosives on a train in a suitcase to do significant damage. It would hardly cripple our economy if people became afraid to ride trains, like it would if they were afraid to fly. So it's hard for me to imagine any terrorist using American trains as part of their plot. (It would be different somewhere like Japan where they are so dependent on their trains, or even in New York with the subways.) I can't imagine the time and trouble would be worth it for Amtrak to do thorough searches of everyone, and random searches are, well, random.

If a terrorist wants to blow up a chemical plant or a downtown or a bridge, they need only load up a truck with explosives and drive it there. Far more efficient and less risky.

We all stand far greater odds of dying in a traffic accident or probably even of slipping in the shower. Why do we get so obsessed with these long-odds issues? Next thing you know we'll be setting up checkpoints to search passenger cars. Imagine the damage a bomb could do on a crowded freeway in the middle of a city!

Let's get real and focus on where the real dangers are.

Posted By Sandy on February 21, 2008, 1:46 PM

The proposed system is pointless since a person who is selected for screening need only refuse, and be denied boarding at that time & place. S/he could even try to enter the same station by a different entrance, with the likelihood of not being randomly selected the second time. Any terrorist plan could easily accommodate the possibility that time, place, or number of agents might change (with low probability), and no person would be searched who does not wish to be.

Posted By rl1 on February 21, 2008, 2:07 PM

AMTRAK has been so snubbed as viable by Washington and the politicians that its importance has reached near insignificance in most parts of the country. It would hardly be a terrorist priority, except perhaps for the Boston-NY-DC lines. It seems that Washington devises tactics that give the pretense of protection, while ignoring areas that merit real attention, like our shipping ports.

Posted By William Torphy on February 21, 2008, 2:16 PM

I object to the Amtrak’s “random” screening, and it’s not about political correctness; it’s not about profiling. It’s about freedom and common sense. I also object to the screening at airports. I was in security for many years before retiring. I can tell you that the kind of dog and pony show TSA puts on does nothing ... nothing to stop a real terrorist. All it does is irritate hundreds of thousands of innocent people; people who have a constitutional right to move freely about the United States; to not have their belongings arbitrarily seized because the TSA agent had a bad day; to not be held up for hours because they are on a watch list, because someone, somewhere once used a name similar to theirs. This is not true security. This IS true fascism.

Yes, you may catch a few crazies who try to get on a plane with a gun or knife with the intent of causing havoc. But, the system caught those people relatively efficiently before and can do so now. A trained, dedicated terrorist will not duplicate the last great attack idea, which you now know about. He is thinking about the NEXT great attack idea, about which you know nothing, and about which you can do nothing at the point of attack. Protection from these people comes from the intelligence community ... which automatically excludes all TSA personnel.

Can security be perfect? No! It wasn’t so before; it isn’t so now; and it won’t be so in the future. Look at this logically ... if the President of the United States, probably the most protected person in the world, can be assaulted, it proves that if someone wants to do harm, they will ... no matter how much security is in place.

You should be more worried that, after all these years since 9/11, still we do not screen all the cargo and baggage that goes on every plane. There is much more of a threat in the cargo hold than in the passenger compartment. Just like trains.

Posted By Dave on February 21, 2008, 2:20 PM

[quote]I mean, how many people actually ride Amtrak?[/quote]
... Lots, actually. Amtrak is busiest on the Northeast Corridor, and you need only be a resident of New York or Washington, DC to understand why random searches are a good idea on trains. Amtrak is used by many for their daily commute, especially for those who live outside of the subway lines. Also, most cities' train stations are in their downtowns, not out in the country like a lot of airports are. During rush hour, thousands of people can be riding the rails, and anything we can do to deter someone from taking explosives onto a train is a great idea.

[quote]Why is our rail service so slow and inadequate?[/quote] That's because, except in the Northeast, passenger trains have to share the tracks with freight trains, and freight trains will inevitably clog up the lines every day.

People don't realize how much our air and auto travel is subsidized by the federal government, as compared to rail, yet rail is so much better for the environment, and more convenient. Trains go from downtown to downtown, eliminating all the driving to and from airports, etc. I love trains, and I hate to see what's happened to them in this country. I'm going to Switzerland for the first time in March, and I can't wait to see how it's done!

Posted By The pixinator on February 21, 2008, 2:36 PM

For those of you who havent noticed, this is an election year, and the presence of this kind of thing in a travel area is an exercise in fear mongering. Most of Amtrak is long distance trains (not commuter trains). This kind of random sweep is not effective for its stated purpose (as a knowledgable law enforcement person), but does build further the infrastructure of a police state and create an ideal climate for political claims. We would all be realistically better off if this level of effort secured chemical plants and nuclear power facilities. Nasty and unnecessary stuff.

Posted By john wetherhold on February 21, 2008, 2:40 PM

Yawn. Who cares?

Amtrak trains cost as much as a flight with the speed of a car and the convenience of neither.

I've never been on an Amtrak train that ran on anything even vaguely close to on time. Anywhere from 1 hour late for the first 35 miles of travel to sitting in a train yard on Chicago's south side for two hours motionless. Is there a worse way to travel than Amtrak?

Posted By Peter Sipes on February 21, 2008, 2:43 PM

I spent 31 years in law enforcement and can think of nothing more odious than "security checks". Our governments must be taught that American citizens are not the enemy and should not be forced to prove total helplessness before being granted to public services. By security checks people are being cowed into subservience rather than being protected. The end purpose is control, not protection. The Constitution alone is our protection, and it must be preserved at all costs.

Posted By Daniel J. Vandeberg on February 21, 2008, 3:56 PM

I am in favor of this measure as long as the protocols are clear and reasonable.

Posted By Paul on February 21, 2008, 3:58 PM

Our trains service is so bad its hard to concieve of a terrorist being interested in slowing it down further. I believe that a true terrorist wants a high profile target. In the case of Amtrack no one would notice.

Posted By James on February 21, 2008, 4:37 PM

ARE YOU ALL OUT OF YOUR MINDS? OR JUST GULLIBLE VICTIMS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION'S CALCULATED FEAR-MONGERING? IN THE U.S., YOU CANNOT SEARCH ANYONE WITHOUT DISTINCT "PROBABLE CAUSE." IN OUR AMORPHOUS TERROR, WE ARE SQUANDERING EVERY BIRTHRIGHT AFFORDED TO US BY BEING BLESSED ENOUGH TO LIVE HERE.
IF YOU SEE SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR, THEN REPORT IT INSTANTLY, AND IT CAN LEAD TO A LEGITIMATE SEARCH. UNTIL THEN, HOLD YOUR PEACE BEFORE FOISTING A POLICE STATE ON THE REST OF US. I'M PLAIN DUMBFOUNDED THAT A FELLOW AMERICAN COULD THINK THAT RIDING AMTRAK CONSTITUTES PROBABLE CAUSE FOR SEARCHING A FELLOW HUMAN.
IF WE DON'T TREASURE THE RIGHTS GRANTED US IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS, WE ARE WELL ON THE ROAD TO DESTROYING THE PRINCIPLES OF FREEDOM THAT HAVE SERVED US WELL FOR 200+ YEARS.

Posted By carrie fisher on February 21, 2008, 4:41 PM

I have been considering traveling by Amtrak in lieu of flying because of the whole baggage charge craziness that is going on with the airlines. Now this, what is next??? I have not traveled by train for a very long time and found it to be an enjoyable experience. I was getting excited about the idea of being able to do it again, this time coast to coast. Since I do not have to rush to my destination it would be nice to see the country in this way. However, random searching..... I am all for if you search one, search all. The problem with random it is exactly that, random and racial profiling does come into play in these situations. It is not all about who may be about to blow something up. It is about the make-up of the underlying racial tensions still very existent in our country.

If you are a person of color you understand racial profiling very well. You see it and experience it first hand and it gives me a nauseating feeling deep in the pit of my stomach to know that because of skin tone I could be searched. Going further than that if I happen to be of the traditional Muslim faith and wear the articles of clothing I could also be suspect and singled out. No, I do not like the idea of random anything. If you are going to search at all, search them all.

Posted By julia brissot on February 21, 2008, 6:05 PM

If profiling is the only concern, then adopt a system as they use in many Mexican airports. Although quite humorous, the traveller pushes a button which activates a traffic light. Green means go and red requires a spot check. The only thing guiding the red lights' frequency is the computer program - or so we hope!

Posted By Lino on February 21, 2008, 6:31 PM

If they do NOT screen everyone, what's the point. As with the airlines the point is only to show us they can make us do stupid things, none of which makes us safer. After all this is being done at the least possible cost, so how safe do you feel.

Posted By Charles D. Elson on February 21, 2008, 6:48 PM

Just another idiotic idea to pretend they are doing something real about risk. I think alot of ex-FEMA people went to Home Security.

It will be like airport security: a bunch of exburger flippers with gestapo powers,who have no idea what hey are doing.

Posted By wbarrettmd on February 21, 2008, 7:22 PM

I feel the government has gone way overboard and are trying to kill a mouse with an elephant gun.

I doubt that spot checks will prevent any determined idiot who wishes to damage a train. And think that such spot checks are a total waste of money and time and probably infringe on rights and invite discrimination.

I also think that the airport security checks are too extreme. The security gurus are mostly reacting to publicized (and failed attacks) rather than having any common sense in addressing where and how we are vulnerable. The long lines at airport security waste time and money and don't make me feel any safer than I did before all the rules, regulations, and checks (and I believe that any smart and determined terrorist could outwit the system.)

Posted By Maggie on February 21, 2008, 7:24 PM

I refuse to go on Amtrak again until they check bags like airports do. We were in Europe ON A TRAIN on 9/11 so I will NEVER forget it !!

Posted By Lynn Fiore on February 21, 2008, 9:49 PM

Why not just check everyone before boarding?

Posted By Smitty on February 21, 2008, 10:55 PM

PLEASE! Common sense is reality & vice versa. Of course this is "racial." Since Columbus (&before) came here & set up this plan. America has always been about "race." Its a "police state" coming out of the closet (the military will soon be on every corner). As a "Dreadlock of African origin" I suffer this each day & as I go thru Amtrak stations, I'm constantly stared at by the police. At that moment if a "so-called terrorist stood beside him he wouldn't know it. The true terrorists have been here for decades. I strongly agree w/ Julia Brissot!

Posted By Out-Spoken Reality on February 21, 2008, 11:19 PM

Amtrak security should be the same as in airports, rather than random searches.

Posted By Fleming Bell on February 21, 2008, 11:54 PM

Don't forget the original reason for the increased security that we endure today ... criminals flying airplanes into large buildings. There is virtually no danger of that with a train. Similarly, the train is not under the directional control of the engineer. The train can be diverted remotely. If we are worried about someone killing us with a large bomb, the danger is probably greater at a major traffic intersection than in a train. Do we begin random searches on urban Interstate highways?

Posted By Dan on February 22, 2008, 12:05 AM

Isn't there a poem: The terrorists in Spain were mainly on the train? They've shown they'll pretty much blow anything up to get to those virgins and honey. Security at train stations sounds good to me. If random searches or profiling or whatever helps ensure our security than so be it.

Posted By RJ on February 22, 2008, 12:09 AM

We are not being profiled by racial or gender. It's the idiots that control our lives by their selfish desire to hurt someone-anybody. Idiots are every color, race, gender and religion. We have to be more secure. If you don't like someone searching your bags, then stay home or drive. I tell the security people 'dump it out, I have nothing to hide'...

Posted By debi on February 22, 2008, 9:37 AM

Everyone says they want security and searches - until its pointed towards them... then they argue that they aren't the bad guys - search someone else. I know.. I hear it every day - I work for the Department of Homeland Security.

Posted By Annette on February 22, 2008, 11:16 AM

I traveled in England over twenty years ago and they were checking handbags, etc. even then. When I get on a public transport of some type, I expect all my luggage and carryons to be checked. It is just a reasonable security step.

If you feel strongly that the checks are wrong, drive your car everywhere or walk. I prefer being overly cautious to being a victim of some terrorist or a mentally ill person.

Posted By Pamela Fraser on February 22, 2008, 1:18 PM

This will end my travel with Amtrak. I stopped traveling by plane because of the hassle of getting on the plane! I enjoyed the relaxing ride by train.

I guess I will just have to drive my car untill they do random checks of our personal space and when that gets invaded I will find a cave and live off the land with just a rod and reel and my bow.

Posted By Tim Barris on February 22, 2008, 1:26 PM

Arrive 1.5 hours before your trip is scheduled to leave - sound familiar? Check everyone - not randomly!

Posted By charlotte on February 22, 2008, 5:40 PM

To the people who say, "of course we need MORE searches, etc"

How stupid can you get!
First disarm everyone on planes so they can't fight back. Result 9/11.

Now search the trains.
Of course terrorists could not find a way to smuggle things aboard.

Then buses. Then cars.

Don't fix the problem by insisting the government stay out of everyones business, INCLUDING the Middle East. No, it's better to give up your rights.

The American sheeple are getting what they deserve.
Fleeced by the corporations and screwed by the government.
Freedom? What's that?
Welcome to the USSA.

Posted By Free on February 22, 2008, 9:01 PM

Here's a clue for "free": When you build those model airplanes, put the cap on the airplane glue.

Posted By RJ on February 23, 2008, 12:01 AM

In Israel EVERYONE opens their bag for inspection at the entrance to every mall, train and bus station, university, school, often stores and restaurants etc. Men get scanned with electrnic wands for explosive belts. You get used to it and becomes second nature. This applies to EVERYONE regardless of race, age and gender. When I enter a mall in the States I sometimes open my bag for a check without thinking.
Airports are different. There profiling is in effect. While I think it is understandable it is not always done in a respectful manner and that must be changed.

Posted By Shahama on February 23, 2008, 5:54 AM

If you think it's silly, stupid, a waste of time and/or money, then YOU need to have your head examined before you leave on a trip! How could anyone in their right mind feel that this is racial profiling? I am a retired police officer of 34 1/2 years and I don't care what airline/plain/subway asks me to "open up". They'll get it, and with a smile. It's the other way of thinking that gets you in serious trouble. If you have nothing to hide, why be bothered over it? Maybe some of you bleeding hearts better think twice!

Posted By Larry on February 25, 2008, 3:37 AM

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! This is a needed step to ensure the safety of the passengers. Security measures like these are NOT racially motivated and should be taken as a step of added protection for the customers. Quit trying to make everything racial when it is for the security of all. If you aren't guilty - don't yell!

Posted By Glenda Booker on February 26, 2008, 12:00 PM

"Free" & Dave are right, Americans stupidly & blindly go along with the so called "security" screenings at airports and now being proposed for trains, falsely thinking this will prevent another 9/11, we're all being lied to by Bush & Company. We're happily believing their propaganda that we'll be safer if we give up our freedoms, little by little. The Terrorists have won, they're making life more difficult, costing us more money. They're smarter than Bush, Cheney, & Halliburton Inc.

The deptmt of homeland (un) security is a HUGE waste of time & money. The endless lines in airports due to screenings only waste more of our time & money. We've all seen TV reports of "testers" make it thru with weapons. Yet we're spending millions on machines & security procedures, and all it does is turn a 2 hr flight into a 6 hour day of travel. There are so many holes. Do you think a terrorist will be stupid enough to try to get thru security? They'll take the path of least resistance and find a way around it.

I have travelled in the US and Europe, and European trains are so much nicer, more efficient, faster & cheaper, than ours. They don't check bags or do random searches. Amtrak sucks. Took an Amtrak train to Newark NJ once a few yrs ago, it was dirty, slow, disorganized, overpriced. Does anyone really think a "random" search is going to prevent terrorism? Even searching everyone is not going to catch a terrorist. They're not stupid. They will avoid trains then, and /or find a way around the useless time wasting security screenings.

Welcome to 1984...."War is Freedom"

Thanks a lot George Bush.

Posted By Mike F. on February 27, 2008, 6:29 AM