VERY MISGUIDED! This article represents a serious lack of insight on the part of the writer!

1.) Public Display of Affection:
Just because there are some (even several) examples of public displays of affection, it certainly does NOT mean it is socially acceptable. The writer fails to recognize these are youth that have broken with accepted cultural and religious tradition, largely due to the often unwelcome influence of western media influences (movies, TV, music, fashion etc.). The actions of these youth defy traditon and authority, and are almost certainly viewed poorly by the public. Therefore, it is unwise for westerners to similarly disrespect the local norms, especially considering westerners are to blame for the threat to the local customs in the first place - in the minds of many locals.

2.) Safety of female travelers:
Just because the experience of the writer's group was limited to verbal rather than physical harassment, certainly does not mean they were never in physical danger. It is like saying that since you made it home with your wallet, there was no danger of pickpockets! I would not want readers to come away with a false sense of security, and become victimized in any way. Being a group, rather than alone is certainly helpful, since these things happen opportunistically, and a group avoids many circumstance which put you in danger. However, females traveling without male companions should avoid being alone and remain on high alert to quickly discern any developing dangerous situations.

Posted By John on April 30, 2008, 11:48 AM

Thanks to Liz for her comments on issues that Westerners are not particularly well-versed in and a thanks to John for further clarifying the issue and offering a wise approach.

Posted By Di Garcia on May 1, 2008, 12:41 PM

I went to Istanbul in January and planning another trip in June. I loved Turkey and Istanbul and I saw this: NO public displays whatsoever, handholding maybe, but not like the parks of Paris. I thought the people of Turkey were great. Majority of women did not wear headscarves and dressed in common Western style clothing OR wore headscarves and dressed in stylish head to toe coats and dress that covered pretty much everything. And yes, the vendors do gawk, lure and harrass but mostly innocent pitching, not unlike Mexico, where I think the males are much more aggressive in their attitude towards single women. Then again, I am a male and females probably are more intuitive as to the messages they feel from men. In any case, I thought Turkey was as Western as you can get and a great place to visit and felt safe enough. Certainly the viewing on TV looked more like MTV than anything else.

Posted By ROY on May 1, 2008, 12:49 PM

Having been to Istanbul a couple of times, I have had similar experiences as the writer, however, I was forewarned by more thorough guidebooks.

With regards to PDA, it highly depends on where you are. There are parts of Istanbul that are newer, and more modern than others. However, when visiting a place, I would tend more toward the conservative side just to be safe.

As for the safety of female travelers, I have wandered through Istanbul, by myself, in a group of women, and in a group with some men. When I was alone, I was followed by a man claiming to be a journalist who wanted me to have coffee with him. He followed me for 10 minutes before he gave up as I kept telling him that I was rushing off to meet friends. My sister wandered off on her own at the Hagia Sofia for a couple of minutes and came back with a guy following her and insisting on talking to her. He followed us for 10 minutes before giving up.

When I was with a group of women (once with my mother and sister), the verbal harassment is commonplace. From shopkeepers and just on the street.

When with a group with men, I never got harassed.

In general, I never felt unsafe, but then again, I always stayed in very public areas where there were a lot of other people around and I was as polite as possible in brushing off unwelcome advances. Eventually, they do give up. However, I've found the issue is less not feeling safe and more just feeling irritated because you always feel on the defensive.

My advice to women travelling in Istanbul:
- stay in public areas in view of other people.

- travel with at least a group, preferably with at least one male in the group

- one trick I heard about to try if you're going to be on your own is to wear a ring on your wedding ring finger. Men tend to respect the ring, so there's less of a chance of them harassing you if you appear to be married

Posted By Alyce on May 1, 2008, 12:57 PM

After reading this woman's report, it took me a few minutes to realize that it was not a failed attempt at humor. Instead, it was a story of misguided perception from the post modern American female.

1) Every day, I see public displays of affection (straight & gay) in the US that are outrageous and which only a few years ago would have brought immediate public condemnation from by-standers and police alike. Today that condmenation has been silenced by Political Correctness Police. I guess the PCers are everywhere, including Instanbul. But that doesn't mean there aren't observers who find the activity offensive.

2) In the days of "My Yute", it was common for "da guys" to hang out on a corner (usually in front of the drug store with its soda fountain) a "watch the girls" There were many top of the charts pop music hits proclaiming the rite: "Standin on the corner, watchin all the girls go by", "Watchin the belles of Southern Bell go by", "Music to watch girls by, and many more. It was only when the women's liberation movement brain washed the American female into believing this was a degrading rite that American women no longer smiled enjoyed the complimentary WOW look. Thank goodness, the Anti-Sexist Gestapo hasn't done their worst in Instanbul.

PS, I can remember the butcher, pahrmacist, grocer and all the rest, jokingly flirt with every female customer, including my Mom. It was not grounds for a "peace bond court order" in those days.

Posted By Big Mac on May 1, 2008, 1:30 PM

John, above, makes some excellent points and I would have made the same points myself, although I wouldn't have scolded you, Liz, for being "misguided" or "lacking insight" - that's a bit harsh, John. I think, Liz, that you've made some innocent and perfectly understandable observations that would be expected from a short trip, and especially a trip to Istanbul. Outside of the big cities - Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Antalya - where there's lots of canoodling between young people, head-scarfed and devot/conservative or not (I see it everyday in Antalya), it's certainly not acceptable by many sectors of society and it's not acceptable outside the big cities. Foreigners also stand out more when they behave in this way, as they might at home, and it's pretty widely considered that they're not respecting local customs and traditions. So, like John and the guidebook authors, I'd also suggest saving any canoodling until you get home (or to Italy!). And, yep, I also agree with John about men... best to be on the safe side. No matter where you are actually.
But did you have a great time anyway? Isn't Istanbul a wonderful city?

Posted By laradunston on May 1, 2008, 1:40 PM

I have been to Turkey three times, the last trip about a month ago. I think the distinction must be made between the tourist areas and countryside. When in the tourist areas you can behave like westerners, except when around religious buildings. The men will naturally hit on western women as a marriage is a pass to the US, and probably they get enough flattered women to be reinforced. Whatever the case, it is always advisable for women to use caution, when in a foreign culture

Posted By Ken Crawford on May 1, 2008, 2:40 PM

Istanbul is full of trash and very overpopulated. It is very expensive and the stores lack the variety of international products. Except foreign booze, beer and soft drinks. Shopkeepers hardly ever greet you, never say thank you or bye. They ignore you! Most of them do you a favor if you are a single foreign woman buying bread or cigarettes. People think that a different-looking foreign woman is an Ukrainian hooker. One begs for space while walking or being on a bus. They shove you, push you. Men take an advantage of the crammed places and they try to touch your chest, some put their hands in the pockets in order to caress your thigh! Drivers are rude and dangerous. They smoke while driving, talk on the cell phones and spit out the window! They would have a poster of a girl clad in bikini, next to which one sees Mahallah. So are the pedestrians; they jump over the median, cross a highway!wherever the feel like and throw all the trash to the ground. Most of them look pious, but they are crazy about MTV and porno shops! Young people hardly go the the mosque. The prayers (Salah)are chanted in Turkish! but people read Al-Qur'an in Arabic without understanding it! Taxi drivers do not usually run meters for foreigners and rip them off. A DOLMUSH driver sometimes will not stop at your requested stop; they literally take you for a ride. Or request extra money if you happen to be the only pasanger. Almost everyone smokes everywhere. Young people are cool, but they are frustrated because of joblessness. Tourists do not see a real Turkey taking digital pictures from air-conditioned double-decker busses, being dropped off at places of interest and fancy restaurants. I lived there for six months-five too many!

Posted By Elisabeth on May 1, 2008, 4:55 PM

When my sister and I were in Istanbul, she hired a private guide for 3 days. He was knowledgeable, not only about history, but how to keep us from being hassled. We had a wonderful time, but I do think that a native guide made all the difference. It wasn't nearly as expensive as you might expect, either.

Posted By Anne on May 1, 2008, 10:54 PM

I am from India but have lived in the USA for years.
The problem that many people do not understand about traveling in conservative socities is that the people have a completely different world view. In Turkey a respectable woman does not go traveling around by herself - she does not speak to strangers - she NEVER touches a man she does not know ( I see foreign women often touching cab drivers, shop keepers, guides, etc.) - she dresses modestly (this means she conforms to local customs for respectable women). Why? Because, not to do so sends a signal that she is not respectable - the opening many men need to start pushing boundries. It really is common sense, not a matter of personal freedom of expression, or right to be given ones space. People only know what they know, they do not know what you know. Their customs are the customs they live by. Western customs for women are not respected in many places in the world and men think that most western girls are not respectable the way an ordinary local girl is, so they start out with a prejudice that can not easily be overcome. If this prejudice is not acknowledged then a woman can easily find herself in an untenable situation, then she will blame the man. It isn't really his fault, he simply is an example of the cultural norms of his society.
I understand these men because I used to be just like them, it took me years to come to a different viewpoint. Just remember, they do not think like you, do your best to respect that and you will be alright. Men and women in many places in the world keep a polite distance and the maintance of that space is often (like it or not) the woman's responsibility.

Vinod Kumar

Posted By Vinod on May 2, 2008, 1:12 AM

My Sister and I visited Istanbul for a week. The men of course were always trying to sell us something. Not one was rude or disrespectful and at no time did we feel we were in an danger. We walked the streets alone at night to eat out and walked all over town during the day.
The people were not a religious as we had expected and didn't have to wear a scarf on our heads to go into the mosques.

Posted By Marilyn Heron on May 2, 2008, 12:32 PM

Went to Istanbul years ago and had no problems Since I am a traveler-not a tourist. Have visited 107 countries. The golden rule is when in Rome do as the Romans do. I have always bought an inexpensive outfit that reflected the local dress, and therefore was as inconspicuous as possible. I learned this lesson years ago in Morocco and also during the first year that China opened her doors
to U.S visitors. We caused the innocent gathering of people who had never seen Westerners. I merely
bought a local outfit, and had no more "stares."

Posted By norma r hairston on May 2, 2008, 2:44 PM

My daughter (17) and I visited Istanbul probably 10 years ago so things might have changed somewhat. We had no trouble with men other than shopkeepers trying to get us in their stores to bargain. We were very careful to dress modestly (which we do anyway). No short skirts, shorts, tight clothes. I think part of the problem is the impression given by American films that all American women are loose.
My daughter served a mission for our church in Spain and, in spite of being very conservatively dressed and always accompanied by a similarly dressed young woman, was constantly harrassed by men. When I went to Spain to pick her up I saw them in action. They would try to pick her up even with her mother standing by! Istanbul was nothing compared to Spain.

Posted By Bonnie Dickson on May 2, 2008, 5:23 PM