I have been overweight my entire adult life due to a medical condition. When flying I have in the past bought 2 seats together in oerder to releave the stress on my fellow passengers. EVERY SINGLE TIME I have had the seat confiscated (with no remuneration) by the airline. They charge for the seat I pay for the seat, they resell the seat. Until there is a fair process, people need to quit bitchin about this issue. Those who don't have a size issue, cause three times the problems than I have ever done with their multiple bags overhead taking up the overhead storage of everyone else travelling.

Posted By mparry on August 1, 2008, 12:19 PM

Would there be a distinction between people who are obese and large, fit people like football players? Would tall people be charged more because they weigh more, even if their BMI is good?

Unless the airlines is going to say "this ticket is for 135 pounds of passenger and additional charges apply per pound"...and then weigh people as they go through the line....I don't see how this could possibly be enforced.

Why don't they spread out the seating and not try to cram so many bodies into the plane? Wouldn't that result in less weight per flight and subsequent savings of fuel?

Posted By Alice on August 1, 2008, 6:50 PM

I don't see how an airline can justify charging for a person who is "large", or fat, when it will usually equal out with the rest of the passengers added together. Example; I am 290 lbs., and I fly with my daughter who weighs 115 lbs. . Together, we average 202.5 lbs. Where is the "fat person" syndrome? It doesn't exist! If airlines are so concerned about the weight on their planes, then simply put less, but larger seats on them. If a plane can only fly with x amount of weight, at a nominal cost, then where is it written that you have to cram more people, into smaller seats, to do this? Yes, it means the airline may have to purchase more planes, but the fuel saved by not having to carry "extra weight" would off set it.

Posted By Crockett Jones on August 2, 2008, 1:25 PM

Shouldn't short people therefore be charged less as they weigh less per se.

Plus the bald should be charged less because they malt less and cause less cleaning.

As long as airlines charge 12 year olds as adults and allow 5 or more carry ons per person I don't think we have much to worry about.

Posted By John O'Hara on August 4, 2008, 4:50 AM

I continue to be amazed at instances like mparry mentions where people buy two seats and the second is confiscated with no refund. This sounds like outright fraud. I strongly suggest that anyone who experiences this do everything they can to escalate the issue - for example look over at http://consumerist.com/ on help on how to mail bomb the executives, or go to you state and federal representatives, call the police, TV or what ever - this is not right in any way.

Budget Travel Editors - What you doing to follow up on this issue? I know that on your previous posts others have made similar comments - I feel that you should contact the commenter's and build an expose. You probably would write about a major travel packager ripping off people - this is similar or worse since these poor folk are trying to be polite to their fellow travelers (and themselves).

Posted By Iolaire McFadden on August 4, 2008, 10:44 AM

I am sorry for overweight people traveling by the crowded, jammed together seats on airplanes BUT I am the victim trying to sit next to an obese fellow traveler. I have also paid for one (1) seat-and can not use the seat because the overweight person next to me has covered the arm rest and is now into my seat space. It is impossible to imagine the discomfort, disabling condition of sitting in one half of a paid for seat-leaning over sidewards-unable to even consider using the tray or the recliner.
The airlines should weigh everyone-including their baggage, carry on bags, back packs- TOTAL weigh- and charge accordingly.
Overweight-oversize people pay for 2 seats-and use the 2 seats and relieve the fellow traveler of a crippling flight.
Also there should be a charge for the excess weight of the carry ons and back packs and rolling suitcases.
HT

Posted By Harold Tieger on August 4, 2008, 12:22 PM

So, Crockett... are you suggesting that it's hunky-dory for the fit people to subsidize the overweight? By your reasoning, you are asking me, who is not overweight, to subsidize an overweight person by your law of averages.

Personally, my version of airfare fairness would to charge all of us a base rate based on your average 12 year old weight (since 12 appears to be the basis of a full-price fare) and then charge extra based on the weight exceeding that. That way, we are all paying the fare for the fuel lugging our carcasses around uses and no one is forced to subsidize someone else's choices, habits, lifestyles or medical conditions.

We are not a socialist state - I am not working my rear-end off to make money to travel in order to essentially subsidize someone else's weight problem - regardless of the reason. And I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who lost 84 pounds and has kept it off for 6 years and was getting to the point that the seat was very uncomfortable for myself and my neighbor.

Just charges all of us according to our weight, and then there's no discrimination.

Posted By Rebecca on August 4, 2008, 12:23 PM

Maybe the airlines could create a few obese rows which essentially would be larger seats but not at first class prices, but at a smaller premium. After watching someone have to sit next to a 450 pound man this week, I think that the airlines could find a way to accommodate everyone without risking their first class business and make everyone happy.

Posted By Steve on August 4, 2008, 12:59 PM

"These are the times that try men's souls!" What, another regulation! Airline travel is already a far cry from what it started out ( especially the overseas flights that used to feature a honeymoon suite and several seatings for dinner with china and silver....) but the latest round of nastiness makes one want to not travel. Unfortunately we do not have a good system of mass transit in most of our wonderful United States. Bravo for those few airlines that are trying to keep things sane. Their people are about the only thing making it fun to travel, and they are ironically being stretched t-h-i-n by the challenges facing the airlines and the passengers. It is difficult not to discriminate for people's sizes...and many have suffered at the size issues...but perhaps we should also tax the talking of the overly zealous business types that like to one up each other discussing their passions from coast to coast....length of hair could be taxed by the airlines, eye color, shoe thickness, and on and on. We need to step back and take a deep breath...and try to go ahead without all this hysteria. Hmmm, has anyone read Atlas Shrugged recently?

Posted By Donna on August 4, 2008, 1:00 PM

The bottom line is the bottom line. Things always work best when those that drive up costs pay the extra cost they incur. As it stands, the thin and small are subsidizing the fat and large. Now that is wrong.

Posted By cfj52 on August 4, 2008, 1:02 PM

My husband and I think they should weigh a person with their luggage, if they are so worried about the weight on the planes. Charge extra for more weight over a certain amount (figure an average for person + bag).

Posted By Lisa on August 4, 2008, 1:50 PM

There is no way that I believe you have bought an extra seat and it has been used by the airlines - especially everytime. I work for a major airline and they have no right to take a seat back that has been purchased. May be you should think about losing weight!!

Posted By jp on August 4, 2008, 1:51 PM

I am an average size person and often have a very large person overlapping into my seat. It is uncomfortable for me and embarrassing for the large person. Regardless, even sitting next to an averge size person, the seats are just way too tight. I say the airline increase the leg room and the arm room and make us ALL more comfortable--we all pay enough and put up with enough aggravation at the airport, not to mention delays!

Posted By CG on August 4, 2008, 3:29 PM

If flight attendents can't be discriminated against-then I guess passengers can't be either.
Believe me, sitting next to a huge person on a long flight is sometimes difficult. Although this goes for very large people who may not be fat. Sat next to a VERY large man once on a 14 hour flight and I was in the middle seat-he didn't have enough room for himself although he was not fat, and with his overflow I surely did not have enough room. Imagine a red eye like that!!!

Posted By susan smith on August 4, 2008, 3:56 PM

Wow, I'm 5'7" and weigh 124 lbs. If we are going to be weighed at the airport and pay accordingly, I am going to stop eating the bag of Cheeto's I just bought, save myself some cash!!! yikes

Posted By AD on August 4, 2008, 4:33 PM

Why just go on weight. You brought more checked luggage and carry on bags than I did.

Posted By Lisa on August 4, 2008, 6:38 PM

I think people and their bags should have to weigh together. There could be a limit set for weight of passenger and bags en toto and if it's over a certain amount they pay an extra fee. It bugs the heck out of me that when my husband and I traveled recently (UAL) the agent at our initial boarding site (DSM) made such a HUGE deal out of the following: My checked bag weighed 52#. My husband's checked bag weighed 47# -- and so we were told to move items from one to the other to equal the allotted 50# per bag (unless we paid the extra fee). After reorganizing we still didn't meet the EXACT #50 -- mine was 50.5#, my husband's 49.5# -- the agent made a BIG DEAL out of "let[ting] it go THIS TIME but I'm not supposed to." At the very next check-in kiosk was a man who EASILY weighed 350-400# checking in with his bag and who was allotted the SAME 50# bag. Nobody made a big deal about his weight (and I was glad not to be seated next to him!) but my total combined weight (bags and person) would equal about 175#. You tell me what's fair about this! Who 'cost' the airlines more avgas??? Set a limit--275# or whatever for everything going on a plane under the name of ONE passenger. If you're over by 1# you pay extra.

Posted By Karen in Des Moines on August 4, 2008, 10:57 PM

Weigh the total, of bags and the passenger, starting at the base weight of 220 pounds. This weight would include the human body and all its accoutrements. Then charge percentage of increase over that base. I suggest this even though I myself am obese.

Posted By Carolinita on August 5, 2008, 1:17 AM

I find it very interesting that all you so called “fit” people think that you are the perfect airline seat companions because you don’t trespass onto anyone else’s space. For goodness sakes, its airline travel folks! That means we all intrude, encroach, and invade into each other’s space whether we can admit it or not. Maybe you’re the guy who absent mindedly picks his nose or the woman who put on way too much perfume and is suffocating your neighbors. Maybe you’re the mom/dad with the child who can’t stop fidgeting or you’re the guy who takes his shoes off and grosses everyone out with the rank odor that wafts up from his feet (yea, I know, you’re feet never smell! NOT!). Or maybe you’re the person who talks incessantly or has your iPod up so loud that everyone within 5 feet of you has to listen to your crappy taste in music. My point is, we all have our “issues” and most of us are blind to them. So, if you’re really a traveler, you’ll find a way to be considerate, compassionate, realize that there are all types of people out there – and you’re one of them!!!

Posted By Amy Rose on August 5, 2008, 11:04 AM

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING IF ALL OVER WEIGHT PEOPLE BOYCOTT FLYING. THIS WILL MAKE THE NORMAL WEIGHT PEOPLE HAPPY(EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THEIR TRAVEL COMPANIONS ARE OVER WEIGHT)AND THE AIRLINES WILL LOOSE LOTS OF MONEY AND WILL EITHER RAISE THE PRICES ANYWAY OR GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

Posted By ADRIENNE FAYE on August 6, 2008, 10:40 AM

Come on now! Can you imagine the time wasted if the airlines had to weigh passengers in addition to their luggage? It takes forever to check in with the new baggage collection fees imposed by the airlines for an extra bag. Now they are suggesting weighing us in? Amtrac, where are you?

Posted By JohnD on August 11, 2008, 10:23 AM

Wow I have to agree w/ John D. (8/11/08) Very well put, how much more time would be wasted on weighing people after weighing baggage? Everything holds you up at the airlines. looking the wrong way, having a tiny metel screw from your eye glasses lost in a purse hold you up... they check your bag for chemicals okay? some overweight people have weight in different areas and won't infringe on anyone. I'm heavey and yet I don't take up more them my seat, and I use only on arm rest leaving one for the passangernext to me, out of kindness.

I truly disagree on weighting. if the airlines insists on adding more there should be an if you weight more the x to x pay 10.00 more or if you weight xx to xx more pay 20.00 more. Youo can't weight someone at the airport. feul at the time you buy the ticket vs the time of flight could be more or less, the weighing the calulations etc is mind bogolling

Posted By Tacy on September 10, 2008, 2:14 AM

Way to go Amy Rose! We've all got problems, and being a frequent flyer I am keenly aware of that. I am obese and have several tips and tricks in my aresenal to get around the woes of the obese traveller. I believe technology can solve some of these problems. How about a food tray that can move vertically up and down a shaft to the best body position and is telescopic horizontally? (viz. the paper output tray of the HpDeskjet 9800 series). What about seat belt extenders available on sale at airport shops for those who want their own? The idea of a big person's area in the cabin is also a good one.. afterall we have free facilities for other handicapped persons. This whole hullballoo is because ill-informed people believe that being obese is the always the fault of the 'fat' person!

As an aside, I believe obesity (bariatric) surgery should be made more widely available and cheaper. Nobody wants to be obese and many an obese person would be prepared to undergo this procedure if they fully understood it and could pay for it. Maybe one day this procedure will be as cheap as having your tooth pulled out. Till then....suffer on poor fatso!

Posted By Derek Aryee (Dr.) on October 16, 2008, 11:46 AM

Using the above figures for the 24 pound average weight gain the incremental cost of one pound additional on a flight is 3 cents. Therefore the cost difference between a 100 lb woman and a 300 lb man would be $6.00 per flight. Do you really want the airlines charging for people over some arbitrary weight? Look at the outrageous fee they charge for an overweight bag!

Additionally the space issue is not about obesity or discrimination. As a passenger I have paid for a space on the airplane and I should not intrude on the space of another person nor should that person intrude on my space.

Posted By R Heller on October 17, 2008, 2:57 PM

I think that it would be fair if the airline industry was able to charge by weight and only allow obese and large people to fly with 2 seats. (i.e. isn't large clothing, bigger portions, and bigger anything usually more expensive?) I just returned from a 5 hour plane trip. My flight back was miserable due to a big man that was seated next to me. I don't think there is an easy solution to uncomfortable travel. Most people want to be considerate. The man was very nice and was obviously uncomfortable and aware that his size made me uncomfortable too. He crossed his arms to try to minimize his imposition into my space and when we got off the plane I overheard him offer a military man a ride home. However, I do think that everyone should be charged for the space they occupy provided that they get what they pay for.

I also blame the airlines for some of this inconvenience. It is obviously driven by profits by crowding the plane with smaller areas. Also, I just can't imagine when, if ever, in our "politically correct" society, being allowed to hurt someone's feelings without causing an uproar and lawsuits. Maybe today is an important day to realize that if anything is to change for the good in our society that we all have to speak when the need arises. Let's all start by exercising our right as Americans to vote. Let the politicians that claim to want to better our country know how we feel. Isn't the airline industry regulated? We need to say, "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!" Or, sit in your seat, put in your earplugs, order a $2 bottle of water, drink it, and shut up. If it is really unbearable in the future hopefully the flight attendent will have mercy and reseat me if I ask politely.

Posted By Steve on November 4, 2008, 7:45 PM

This is a response to jp who wrote that he worked for a "major" airline, and there was no way that the airline took back the seat, and that the individual should lose weight. Oh my, listen to yourself, you sound very harsh, and condesending and you are also calling the over weight individual a liar. This world is tough enough without all of the bickering, childish name calling and biases. If you have a disagreement with someone, please be an adult about it and talk it out in that manner, without resorting to making harsh, hurtful comments. It really does not make your statement more credible when you down another individual because of their size. I am not considered overweight,even though I am not totally happy with my weight, but I think that we all have things about ourselves that we do not like, nobody is perfect. I think that each person has daily trials that he or she must deal with, if you are sitting next to a large individual, remember that you only have to be uncomfortable for a little while. The overweight individual has to deal with this every day of his or her life. Try a little compassion and understanding, it really does work wonders.

Posted By Sheila on November 7, 2008, 9:55 PM

1. Airline seats have been made smaller for profitability. It has been documented that seat size has been reduced since the heyday of flying in the 1970s so all seats are tighter and closer together. The real answer is to cut executive pay to reduce costs. I have seen companies run for a year without a CEO but can't operate a single plane without a mechanic.

2. They have great seats for overweight people in first class. Now all they have to do is move them into coach. Isn't it funny that the heroin chic thin people in first class have the largest seats in the plane?

3. I have a great idea to solve all the congestion. put Catholic Nuns on the plane instead of stewardesses and have them throw off anyone who puts more than one thing in the overhead compartment. The planes would be flying half empty and we would all have some room.

Posted By Mark on December 11, 2008, 3:32 PM

I am a frequent traveler. I am a realist. I am an informed citizen. And apparently, that puts me in the minority here.

To clear a few things up:

They DO weigh bags and charge for overweight bags and while it seems silly to argue about a bag that's one pound over while another is one pound under the limit, it is NOT JUST about the total weight in the plane. Yes, the fees are exorbitant, and some of that does go to offset fuel cost, but that's not all. There are baggage handlers who have to pick up your luggage and move it from conveyor to conveyor and actually place it inside the cargo hold. The 50 lb limit per bag is for them too.

Additionally, the same thing goes for the "but it all equals out if I'm 200 lbs and I'm flying with someone who is 100 lbs" argument. It's not always just about the totals. Airline seats are made to handle "average" weights - heavier people mean more wear and tear which means higher maintenance costs.

And there ARE weight, size, and numerical limits for carry-on baggage as well. If you've traveled much since the advent of the fee for checking a bag, you'll have noticed that airlines DO now enforce these rules more than they did previously. Especially on full flights.

Obese people who have purchased two seats have DEFINITE grounds to complain if one of those purchased seats is "confiscated" - just as anyone else who paid for a seat on an oversold flight has grounds to complain when they get bumped. The only difference is, the obese person will still arrive at their destination on time, though uncomfortably, whereas the person who only had one seat but got bumped will not. The airlines are curently still required to do everything they can to get that person to their destination, but while the same rules don't mandate airlines must cater to your comfort, they ARE required to give you what you paid for. So if you didn't get a seat that you paid for and they can't "make it up to you" (by booking you on a new flight if you get bumped, etc.) then they SHOULD refund the price you paid for the seat. It may, unfortunately, take more than simply complaining at the customer service desk.

But overall, if the issue is the cost of jet fuel, then charging by weight makes sense (it's a terrible idea, but it does address the cause of the extra cost and place the burden on the people responsible) but if the issue is space and comfort, then that's not a question of weight, but volume. Muscle is dense and heavier, but takes up less room. If your ticket price entitles you to a certain amount of space, then yes, charging by size (not weight) would make sense for the same reason. So, really we're saying that someone should be able to purchase an "oversize" (more expensive) ticket, then someone else should be able to purchase an "undersize" (cheaper) ticket, right? (In order to make everything equitable.)

What do you know, folks? We already have that. It's called first class, business class, economy plus, and economy/coach class. For the obese person who purchases two seats but always ends up with one... try a first class seat. It will afford you the room of two seats, and they can't take half your seat away. For the person who said, "what about tall people? They're heavier even if they're not bulkier, shouldn't they have to pay more?" They do. Economy plus seats with the extra inches of legroom are more expensive.

The drawback is that this is basically working on the assumption that bigger people will buy the bigger seats and smaller people will buy the smaller seats. Clearly that's not always happening and everyone is less comfortable because of it.

So should airlines *require* this? That's a matter for debate. Rollercoasters have minimums and maximums that state clearly "in order to ride this ride, you must fit in this seat." Who complains about the discrimination there? No one. It's a safety issue. The same thing could be said of airline seats.

I always hope to reach my destination safely and without incident, but I PLAN for the opposite. I wear shoes that won't puncture an inflatable slide or raft. I don't wear jewelry that might get caught in a life vest or snagged on a seat belt. I even tie my hair back so it does not obstruct my vision. I believe taking these precautions might save my life some day. But they won't help at all if the row I'm sitting in or the aisle of the plane itself is blocked by someone large enough to have difficulty maneuvering. Or if the person sitting in the emergency exit row wanted the extra space but is hard of hearing, too weak to open the emergency door, or too panicky to assist in the event of an emergency.

THESE are the issues that matter. These are the things airlines should consider if they move toward regulating seating.

(And for the odd comment about bald people causing fewer clean up costs, you surely must know that bald people still sweat and shed skin, right? That's the same cleaning and vacuuming required.)

For all the people who asked why they don't just make all the seats bigger and further apart I have to question the seriousness of your inquiry. Do you REALLY not know the answer to that? BECAUSE MORE SEATS PER PLANE MEANS MORE PASSENGERS PER FLIGHT AND MORE PROFIT. Yes, it increases fuel costs because it makes the planes heavier. But you have to know that airlines are not flying you from place to place at cost, right? There is a net profit on each and every ticket sold, (net means even AFTER calculating the cost of fuel) so more tickets DO MEAN more profit, even if it ALSO means higher fuel costs.

The bottom line is, airline travel is not the luxury it used to be. But look at the number of people who used to be able to fly and the number of people who are able to fly today. In the old days of china and lounge seats, a small fraction of the population could afford air travel. It WAS a luxury. Now it's a modern convenience that's more available to the masses, but the "luxury" aspects have been sacrificed in order to make it more available. That's simply the way it goes.

It's not about blame. It's not about shame. It's not how you look or how you feel or whether or not it's your "fault" that you're bigger or smaller than your fellow air travelers. It's about how much you value your comfort versus the necessity of getting where you need to go. Simple cost benefit analysis.

If the most important thing is that you get there and your cost benefit analysis has determined that paying rent and buying groceries is more important (more *valuable* if you will) than flying in comfort, then you choose an economy ticket instead of a first class ticket and you hope for the best, but know that you aren't guaranteed the same kind of experience.

If comfort is important enough, then you pay the cost and get the first class seat, but maybe you make fewer trips?

Are you getting less than you used to for the same amount of money in terms of space and service? Absolutely. But once upon a time gas was a nickel too. Things change.

Posted By Meg on December 11, 2008, 8:42 PM

to JP who claims to work for a major airline, airlines overbook flights all the time. If you aren't the first one to get there too bad for you, you're going to have to wait for another plane. Even though you paid for a specific seat on a specific flight they can give your seat away and claim to have every right to do so. They will fill every seat on that plane if they can because airlines aren't making any profit. Airlines should make flying back into what it essentially is, a LUXURY. Give everyone more space and charge everyone a higher fare. If you can't afford the ticket then you really probably don't need to be going on vacation.. And for the record, at 5'5'' and 129 pounds, I'd much rather sit next to a polite overweight person than a crying baby or a 70 year old lady who smells like a french whore.

Posted By Jolie on December 12, 2008, 11:25 AM

I think it is discrimination to charge overweight people for two seats. The airlines make the seats so small, that even normal weight people are uncomfortable. But, the more seats they can squeeze on the plane, the more money they make!!

Posted By Barbara Jones on July 20, 2009, 12:40 PM

I would love to fly on a airplane that charged based on weight. You have a base cost of how much it costs to move the airplane from one location to another. That price is divided by the number of people who are flying on the aircraft, that is the base cost to the customer. Next you would be charge how much it costs to send your weight (body and bags) to the destination (based on how much more fuel is needed). This would only work on high volume routs but there is no discrimination. If you didn't charge based on how many people are flying the craft but instead of flat rate then it would also work for low volume areas.

Posted By hartung on February 28, 2010, 10:08 PM

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