I have a better idea. If the flight is full in economy, then the second ticket price gets you an upgrade to first/business instead of two economy seats.

As someone who doesn't meet those standards (but used to last year), this seems only fair. There are enough stereotypes and crap thrown at overweight/obese people; I can imagine the arguments that will start when someone "of size" can fit in one seat and someone loudly complains when they have to sit next to them.

Posted By Brian Wohlgemuth on April 15, 2009, 5:24 PM

There are a couple of holes in this.
how does one buy an additional seat/ticket on a full flight?
"Any obese person who refuses to purchase a ticket for an additional seat (or for an upgrade to another cabin) will not be allowed to board the flight."
One would need to be in the seat and failing to meet the conditions they specify...how does this happen without first boarding?
and um
what skywaitress is qualified to make a medical diagnosis of "obesity" ???

Posted By Fat Flyer on April 15, 2009, 5:32 PM

My concern is who get to decide who obese? I fly for my company for 30 years and I can tell you the seats are smaller, the belts are shorter, the cost is hi, the service low and todays plane ride is like taking a NY subway in rush hour. So if you look overweight some anorexic will decide to charge you more. Its just a scam to make more money.
How about crying babies, smelly people, the person who brings all there luggage as carry on and take up all the overhead room.
If they want to charge for things they have a lot more to look at then weight.

Posted By Harry B on April 15, 2009, 5:51 PM

People who bring excess baggage on board pay extra fees as well; I have known many musicians who had to pay full price for a second seat simply to bring a cello on board. It's simple really, if you (your person or your bags) take up more than the average amount of space, airlines will charge more.

Posted By Tara O. on April 15, 2009, 6:55 PM

Thank G*d it is about time.

Posted By April on April 15, 2009, 7:00 PM

To those objecting: flying does seem to be getting worse and planes more crowded. So, why should I have to share part of the seat I purchased with my neighbor who cannot confine their body/parts to the seat they purchased. This policy is fair to people who do fit. Airlines should charge for the amount of space taken by any given passenger. Need more than one seat? Then, buy it.

Posted By Chris K on April 15, 2009, 7:38 PM

I'll define "obesity" for you Fat Flyer: it's when someone's body oozes over into a neighboring seat. It's pretty easy to detect.

Posted By Zach on April 16, 2009, 10:51 AM

Finally, an airline is brave enough to confront this issue. I have spent many miserable hours in 2/3 of the seat I paid 100% for due to the obese passenger sitting next to me taking up part of my seat.

Bravo, United! I will certainly book on you in the future!

Posted By laura Shea on April 16, 2009, 5:59 PM

The seats on an airplane are not that small, people that do not fit know they do not fit but do nothing about it. ie buy a larger seat purchase two but wait to board the plane and force someone like me to give up half my seat to them. Why should I have to give up what I've paid for when you knew all the while this would happen. I do not care if you are overweight or any other thing until you infringe upon me. My rights and contract with the airline is what I have agreed to but time and time again sits are shifted to make room where two bulky people are seated and the skinny mimis are forced suffer. I wonder no one sees this as discrimination of the thin when we are the one who pay the price when you do not fit into your sit.

Posted By J on April 17, 2009, 11:59 AM

Perhaps another way for airlines to approach the issue would to set maximum weight standards. Each passenger would be weighed along with their luggage at check in. If the total weight exceeds a set limit additional charges would be applied. This would address one issue for the airlines in that weight impacts fuel usage and costs. Also if a person cannot properly fit into a seat they should be charged extra.

Posted By Joel Boeckman on April 20, 2009, 10:25 AM

I could not agree more with this requirement.
Having sat next to an obese person more than once, made these flights almost unbearable. In these cases I complained that I paid for a full seat and did not get one.
It just seems obviously clear to me that if you are taking more than one seat on the plane, you should pay more than just for one ticket.
You pay more when you go over the luggage weight allowed, so why not pay more if you take up more than seat.
Maybe airlines should consider a limit on the aggregate weight for passenger and luggage... and have special larger seats for those that go over this limit. Thus giving the client an opportunity to buy a special seat ahead of time...

Posted By Jorge on April 20, 2009, 11:01 AM

My problem is not being obese but having wider than normal shoulders which can cause the same "creeping" over into a second seat, given the extreme narrowness of coach seats.

I will also say that, having tried to purchase a second seat so that I could fly comfortably in coach, I was told that there was no guarantee I would not have to give up that second seat (presumably for a refund but I'm not sure) if the flight was full and they needed it.

I think the airlines need to stop talking out of both sides of their mouth simultaneously. Two coach seats are still cheaper than first class.

Posted By L on April 20, 2009, 11:16 AM

This is a really difficult issue for all involved. We have a morbidly obese member of our family who has extreme trouble walking and who just cannot fit into a single seat on an airline. The individual also does not have a lot of money, so paying for an extra seat does hurt.
However, having flown many times with an obese indidual sitting next to me, and extending over me, I believe that it is only fair that the individual has to find other seating and pay for that seating. I am owed the ability to have my own seat and not to share it with someone else. From an economic standpoint, the airline also has to consider this as the fuel costs are greater due to extra weight on an aircraft - not just from one individual, but from the combined weight of oversize and overweight luggage, and those who, perhaps, are of somewhat greater girth. A choice has been made by them to eat more, hence, they will have to pay more when it comes to flying.

Posted By III on April 20, 2009, 11:19 AM

Now hold on a second. We can do something about obese people, but the airlines refuse to do anything about the whining, screaming, crying crotch fruit that people bring on the plane, especially when I fly first or business? They can't do anything about the retards that have to bring on obviously oversized bags and stuff them into the first empty overhead they see even though they are twenty seats back, thereby depriving several people of overhead space? And they can't do anything about the fact that they are already overcrowding the people in coach by making the seats smaller and the seatbelts shorter, thereby forcing opposing flesh to touch? Bollocks! This is all planned and intended for this result. It's time to take a class action against these airlines and bring them down.

Posted By Albert on April 20, 2009, 11:31 AM

I find it interesting that some of the responders to this blog entry feel the need to use profanity, regardless of how they try to spell it to evade detection. Having sat next to an obese passenger more than once I am all in favor of this new requirement. I have also refused to allow an obese passenger to raise the arm rest because I know that will allow him/her to intrude into my seat. It does make for an unpleasant trip, however, as the obese person grumbles and glowers and squirms in discomfort. Can't say I care about it, though.

There is an old saying from the 1970s (and possibly earlier): "Don't make your problem my problem." Forcing a moderate-weight person to deal with an obese person's excess size is exactly that--making his/her problem mine--and I won't stand for it. We're already crammed in like sardines as it is--don't make it worse.

Posted By Wanda on April 20, 2009, 11:56 AM

Overweight people are a hazard to their own health. Why should they be a hazard to mine too? I may be a bit overweight myself, but I can fit into a seat without overlap into yours. The day I am too fat to fit I will blame myself for my own problem and understand that I have to pay for my poor eating habits- twice!

Posted By K. Bello on April 20, 2009, 12:04 PM

I fully agree with Wanda (above) Don't make your problem my problem! A person of size should be made to buy enough seats that they FIT in. It is hard enough to be average size and be comfortable on a flight without someone intruding your space.
The ARE REST is the ruler! if they don't fit between the arm rests, then buy another seat!

Posted By Jan on April 20, 2009, 12:24 PM

I would fit, but this seems so sad to me. No one wants or chooses to be that over weight, they have a disorder just like an anorexic person.

That said, I understand the need to make a change for the comfort of the other passenges and the "oversized" passenger too actually. This plan just seems so...in their face. A first time flyer that is obese may even not know they would not fit. How humiliating would it be if it were you?

I don't have any answers, I just wish there was another way to deal with people that had this disease. People always seem to blame them, but rarely do I hear "just eat, you dying anorexic!". And really there is no difference.

Posted By Michel on April 20, 2009, 12:37 PM

Bravo!! At last, enough people have complained and finally been listened to on this subject. Try flying to Paris from the States with a 350 lb. person next to you, or should I say, on you. Either make a row of "fat seats" on every aircraft or make them buy 2 seats mandatory. And yes, I would willingly submit to pre-flight weigh-ins in order to ensure that everyone complies with the new regulations.

Posted By Andy on April 20, 2009, 12:51 PM

BRAVO United! finally reasonableness prevails. If you take up two seats you need to pay for two seats. I too have been squeezed nearly out of my seat into the aisle by someone who raised the armrest. If you are that overweight that you can not confine yourself to one seat you need to accept that and d34eal with it in an honorable manner. don't make your problem my problem is GREAT!

Posted By Carol on April 20, 2009, 1:16 PM

During a flight to London, we reluctantly had to share our seats with a very large person with body odor. My husband had the middle seat and I the window. We both lost a third of our seats for the 8 hour flight. It was most unpleasant.
A solution perhaps, as many theaters are now doing, is to add several wide body seats to the aircraft and during check-in these seats could be assigned and the passenger charged accordingly.
I applaud the airlines for requiring an additional seat for overweight passengers.

Posted By beej on April 20, 2009, 1:23 PM

Michel,
In MOST cases, obesity is not a disease. Oh, I have a spending disease... I just cannot control myself in a store. Let's be real.
Second, which is totally a side-point, anorexia, in this case, is less an infringement on others, because no one's skinniness sucks you into their seating area. Obeseness comes from poor eating habits and lack of exercise. It's something you do to yourself. Just don't do it to others. I've had to fly while seated next to obese people. And it makes an already uncomfortable flight even more uncomfortable. A good idea would be for the obese person to half to pay 150% of the seat cost for one seat, and the airline give the extra 50% to those seated next to the obese person.
Or if you're really obese, don't fly.

Posted By Andy on April 20, 2009, 1:44 PM

How about making planes that fit people? From the narrow seats, little knee/leg room, to the windows being to low, to the head rest bulging out where your head doesnt need it! Who are these planes built for?

Posted By Jill on April 20, 2009, 1:47 PM

Whether you are the overweight person who must purchase another seat or the average person who has to sit next to someone encroaching upon space, a space that you paid for, you will feel discriminated against. I don't understand why people who are so overweight that they cannot fit into a seat could possibly feel that the airline should not charge them for a second seat. Be reasonable, folks.

Posted By Maggie Mae on April 20, 2009, 1:56 PM

I too am glad to hear that airlines are starting to address this sticky subject. Too many times I’ve been next to someone who pushes me to the boundaries of my seat. I’m sure many of the obese passengers are perfectly nice people, but I’m not sure many people like rubbing up against strangers for hours on end. Perhaps next the airlines can address the parents that choose to bring their toddler onboard as a "lap child" then proceed to let him/her crawl all over neighboring passengers. This is just as intrusive (if not more) as an obese passenger.

Posted By Amanda on April 20, 2009, 1:58 PM

This is not a Disability Act issue, since virtually all obese people who can't fit into an airline seat voluntarily ate their way there. They do not have the "right" to flow into adjacent occupied seats. Bravo to all the airlines for creating and enforcing such policies.

Posted By Albert on April 20, 2009, 2:11 PM

This is a touchy issue and I feel United has been brave in trying to tackle it. As someone who has had to share their seat with a larger person next to me (the arm could not even be put down) this makes sense. While I feel for what can be an embarassing situation for the large person, it really is unfair for an innocent bystander to pay the price. I think its pretty clear, if you need 2 seats you'll need to pay for them. And actually United is being kinder, they will do their best to give you 2 seats if they are available without charging. You buy 1 seat on a plane after all, if you need more than 1, you need to plan accordingly.

Posted By LR on April 20, 2009, 2:12 PM

Hooray. It is fair to charge for weight and space, as these affect the bottom line on costs. Bigger seats for obese, mean fewer seats (tickets), and higher costs for all. Charging the ones who cause higher costs seems reasonable. Also, why should I have to be uncomfortable when I paid for the whole seat?

Posted By Frank on April 20, 2009, 2:33 PM

I have flown on many different airlines and have noticed that United does have smaller seats and shorter seatbelts than other airlines. Obese passengers do present a problem but I am concerned about the decision to double charge them. Would this apply to pregnant women or parents traveling with small children, who can sit on their laps, also take up more room. What about the passenger in front of you who puts his seat all the way back, thereby forcing you to practically have a head in your lap and/or trapping you in your seat?

Posted By Viv on April 20, 2009, 2:35 PM

Thank heavens! My husband recently sat next to a human boxcar all the way back from Milan. He said that he was never even able to catch sight of the armrest, and the man kept complaining that my husband was "invading his space".

Posted By m wright on April 20, 2009, 2:41 PM

Don't be so harsh on obese people. You never know if it will happen to you or a loved one. I agree that it does create a problem if you have an oversized person sitting next to you. However, you may never know how grateful that oversized person sitting next to you is for your patience. People overeat because they have problems beyond their control. No one wants to be obese. It is not something a person wants, not being able to walk for too long, dress in nice clothes, go out and dance all night, etc. There are more problems in the airlines like extremely loud people, crying kids, people with oversized baggage, etc. They need to look into these problems also.

Posted By Bobbie on April 20, 2009, 2:51 PM

A few years ago, an obese man tried to talk me into moving into the middle seat so he could sit on the aisle. I told him no and he started to throw a tantrum about how he needs to be able to lean into the aisle to fit in his seat. I said I booked the aisle seat months in advance for the same reason for my comfort. As he moved to his middle seat he lifted the arm between our seats. I immediately lowered it, and he was so huge he couldn't even squeeze between the armrests. He squealed like a pig and demanded I lift the armrest. I said he was not welcome to sit in my seat, that I had paid for it and that the armrest would delineate what he was entitled to, and what I was entitled to. He had raised his voice at this point and was making quite a scene, I felt like he was trying to bully me into giving up my rights and my comfort for a long, cross-country flight. Anyway, I think the stewardess saw this whole thing coming and managed to get him two seats together. No idea if he had to pay for the second seat. I felt acutely embarrassed for the guy, but also a little anger toward him since I realized he must bully people every time he flies. The truly obese people should have to pay for a second seat if one is not available. And as for the poster that questioned how to determine who is too overweight, I suggest placing a separate airline chair near the gate for fit, just as they do with the box that your luggage has to fit within. And then the airlines have to enforce the rule for the people that can't fit in the chair BEFORE they board the plane and make enormous spectacles of themselves and try bullying normal sized people out of their own private space.

Posted By Joe Schlabotnik on April 20, 2009, 2:52 PM

Welcome to United Airlines, with all the comforts and amenities of Chicago's State Street Subway at rush hour. When do you suppose they will be introducing pay toilets? United's excuse that they are concerned about other passenger's comfort would be a lot more convincing if they created a separate area for screaming babies on their long haul flights. Of if they didn't cancel flights so they could pack everyone onto a later one. The Friendly Skies haven't been friendly for a long time.

Posted By adams on April 20, 2009, 2:58 PM

Hear hear. Anyone who cannot fit into 1 seat should be made to buy 2. If they can't, they can't fly. Period.

Bravo United

Posted By JonnyChampagne on April 20, 2009, 3:22 PM

Having had to sit next to obese people at various events, on a plane I would be the first to complain. They are not going to have half of my seat since I've controlled my weight. I've been crowded on bus trips, at football games - you name it. It's time for people to either lose weight or buy the extra seating..I want to enjoy my life also.

Posted By Mona Groff on April 20, 2009, 4:09 PM

I have traveled several times a year for 30 years and have never had a problem with someone sitting next to me being too large.
I resent that heavy passengers are being discriminated against. Some are flying for the first time and don't even know that seats are small.
Since most air crafts are now half empty, why not try a "kinder" solution and offer these flyers two seats for no charge?
I am no longer flying United or any other airline that has this policy or that charges me for my first piece of luggage or is nickle and diming me in any other way.
If they want to create "classes" of people, why not create a separate section for those screaming kids, people who snore, people with poor hygiene along with a section with larger seats?

Posted By Vicky on April 20, 2009, 4:12 PM

Ever since Ronald Reagan (sp?) disbanded the Civil Aeronautics board Air travel has gotten worse. Air Lines have slowly eroded what a traveler gets and is treated to the point that now they are going to charge you for your weight. As a large person my wife and and I have curtailed our air travel to on a must take basis. Although my waist size hasn't grown over 56 for the past three years (and has gone down at times) I returned from a trip to Portugal with bruises from the size of the seats in an A320 Aerbus. On one flight I took I was amazed that the seat belt fit with room to spare. But on the return trip on the same model of plane I had to get a seat belt extender. So it seems that the mechanics are playing games with the seat belts.
We have resigned ourselves that Air travel is a thing of the past for us and when I do buy tickets I am now thinking of buying three seats for the two of us. Since we purchase tickets always in advance for the lowest price it would mean we have the entire row (3 seats) The problem is that the airline could theoretically bump that third ticket. As the ticket you buy does not guarantee you a seat any more since they over book every flight and all they would do is offer me a rebate or another filight but that won;t do us any good.

Posted By Johnb on April 20, 2009, 4:15 PM

I fit in the obese category but the people described in your article are morbidly obese. I agree with the policy. They take up some of their neighbors room.
With so little room between seats now they can also do away with the seats that recline into someone else's space.

Posted By Marlene Tricoli on April 20, 2009, 4:18 PM

I can see the debate from both sides. On the one hand, it is a real nuisance to be sitting beside someone who is flowing into my seat space, or I can't use the armrest because of their size.

on the other hand, the seats have become so small that at 150lbs I am only just fitting!! The leg room is also a lot less than it used to be, so I think large people are in a double bind situation.
However, other travellers should not be penalised for their size.

Posted By bernie on April 20, 2009, 4:21 PM

I will agree that the seats on planes are way too small and they should be made bigger instead of smaller which the airlines have done in the last decade or so. I also know how uncomfortable I have been when another passenger encroaches on my space. If I have paid for a seat, I expect to be able to sit in it without having to share that space with another traveler who cannot fit into their seat. That being said, I know it has to be embarrassing for someone who is obese to be told that they have to purchase another seat, but what else can be done? I am not willing to share my seat with another traveler who cannot fit into their seat.

Posted By Vickie on April 20, 2009, 4:30 PM

I admit that the seats have definitely been made more narrow and moved closer together over the years so the airlines can cram more people in, which makes flying uncomfortable for all of us. Yes, I am unhappy with that. However, I agree that if a person cannot fit into the given space, he or she should be required to buy another seat. Yes, it compensates for the lost revenue on the flight that would otherwise be full. However, as a frequent flyer I do not like having my purchased space invaded by anyone that spills over, hogs and leans over on me, or jams me in the face with their seat back. Sorry people, suck it up and deal with it. Everyone has the right to as comfortable a flight as possible, which means that everyone stay in your their alotted seat. If that means you need two seats, then you should pay for it.

Posted By A frequent flyer on April 20, 2009, 4:33 PM

I pay for the seat I occupy and *not* with the understanding that I have to share that seat or that I am buying less space than anyone else paying full fare. Not only is *space* an issue but also weight. I recently checked in for a flight with a bag weighing 52 # and had to pay an extra $15. At the next window was a passenger easily weighing 350-400 # with *no* checked baggage. His total weight added to the plane (350-400). My total weight (body weight + carry on purse and checked baggage) was about 225 #. Who cost the airlines more fuel and should therefore have to pay extra? Let's just set a weight of combined person + baggage and charge by weight AND a size that fits *one* seat.

Posted By Karen in Des Moines on April 20, 2009, 4:36 PM

I agree that very large people should pay for two seats. A few years ago we were travelling from Beunos Aires to Auckland, NZ and my husband was seated next to an extremely large woman. Her body spilled over the armrests into my husband's seat space, and it could have been an uncomfortable and very much longer journey that it already was! Luckily there were spare seats available so she could spread out. The thing is, she was also entitled to a full baggage allowance............

Posted By Elizabeth Marshall on April 20, 2009, 4:42 PM

United's concern for passenger 'comfort' is overwhelming. Airlines have begun charging for every single minor service--food, water, pillows, luggage, now this! My question for the airline is: Are extremely skinny people going to get a rebate from the airline? Since the cost of fuel is the primary reason for this change (Trust me the airline real does not give a damn whether an obese person is taking up part of your seat)then skinny people and children should be given discounts. Also, if a plane is half empty, will the person be charged for two seats? I bet you they will. Thank you United, you are one less greedy airline I need to travel with. I look forward to the lawsuits concerning violations of the Disabilities Act.

Posted By Rob on April 20, 2009, 4:44 PM

This paying for 2 seats isn't anything new, airlines have been doing this for years. United is just the first to publicize. Many years ago, I witnessed a discount airlines that flew to the south do this. I was nervous, at that time I was overweight and couldn't imagine the embarassment this would cause my family. Fortunately, I was spared, and fit in my seat.

None of us know what is happening to that other person - be made aware of what you say and how you say it. Don't always assume that heavy people are the bully's, they often get bullied.

Today when I fly, I too like my own space, so if I'm going on a long flight I will make the best travel accomodations for me. On the shorter jaunts, if confronted with an unsuitable travel companion, I will try and make it as comfortable for both of us, without compromising myself.

I don't know if having a chair at the gate would be an ideal situation, who gets to decide who is overweight? Why doesn't the airlines post weight requirements for seating like they do for luggage at the point of ticket purchases? If you don't fall within the parameters you are required to purchase two tickets. That way no-one needs to be embarrassed in front of hundreds of people at the gate or counter. People boarding the plane, they will need to learn plain old manners and keep their comments to themselves!

United has started and now the others will follow.

Posted By Sandie on April 20, 2009, 4:48 PM

I agree with Joe above.. Put a seat by the counter at the gate. Doing this will save everyone else the bellowing & arguing in the cabin. This problem has been a long time to be addressed. I was already seated on a flight when the stewardess came down with an obese couple & stopped at my aisle. I was sitting in the aisle seat to let themin. As their backs were to her, she mouthed to me I am sorry. She than came back & offered me an exit row seat, which took

Posted By Bob on April 20, 2009, 4:49 PM

About time to serve the regular, non obese pax. A plane can become grossly overweight with obese people on it.

Posted By Hal on April 20, 2009, 4:53 PM

United, here I come. I have had to fly to Europe for many hours not being able to have my arms by my sides, and pushed partly out of my seat because the person next to me was using MY space. I now keep the armrest down and carry something to stuff in the seat between us to separate my body from theirs. I am not comfortable having some stranger's body pressed so close to mine. I pay for a designated space. I should not have to lose it. As far as not knowing until they board whether they would fit. Have a row of airplane sized seats in the airport waiting area. If they have something to check your carry-on to see that it will fit, why not seats?

Posted By Linda on April 20, 2009, 4:53 PM

Good for United, Delta and South West!! However, I agree with the folks that said the seats are smaller and the leg room less. All those planes that had decent seats are now parked out in the desert in Arizona, gone forever. Two years ago we flew to Vancouver, BC and it was well worth the extra cost to purchase economy plus. The seats were no wider but the leg room was better. With narrow body planes the seats have to be narrower too. It's tough when three average size people have to sit three across. It's really tight. Flying is becoming less and less pleasant these days.
As to the guy who complained about the overhead compartments, try sitting in seats where the overheads are taken up by the electronics for TV and music. You have no choice but to find the first empty bin.
Parents who fly with children should buy a seat for them. My daughter and husband have been flying with our grandson since he was three months old. They buy a seat and bring the car seat for him to sit in. They also bring a DVD player and some movies (now that he's older) for him to watch. I know not everyone can do that but they darn well should. I hate having my seat repeatedly kicked by a child behind me. Parents never seem to notice and stop it.
Happy flying to all. I like the idea of the seat at the gate for the overweight to try before boarding. Nancy

Posted By Nancy on April 20, 2009, 4:56 PM

I'll fly any airline that promises me I won't be blotted out by blubber in the next seat. These people would not be overweight if they would just keep their mouths shut.

Posted By Ruth on April 20, 2009, 5:23 PM

Zack is right: I'll define "obesity" for you Fat Flyer: it's when someone's body oozes over into a neighboring seat. It's pretty easy to detect.

You are morbidly obese when you're 100 pounds overweight or more. It doesn't take a medical professional to arrive at that opinion.

And, yes, smelly people are asked to leave the plane, take a shower, and then come back.

Don't I don't want obese and/or smelly, highly idiosyncratic people sitting tightly next to me

Posted By Dean Robinson on April 20, 2009, 5:27 PM

It's about time. Yes, it's true that seats and space are smaller than they used to be. Yet, while some might wave the banner of non-offense and non-discrimination, I also pay for a seat. When I have to sit next to an obese person, or a person who just likes to spread out, he's using part of the seat I paid for. If my luggage is overweight, I must pay a hefty fee. Let the airlines set weight limits for passengers, too, and charge them accordingly.

Posted By Daniel J. Vandeberg on April 20, 2009, 5:35 PM

Enough cannot be said about the obesity problem on airlines.
The very idea that I should give up my space, which I paid for, is ludicrous.
Personal responsibility starts with understanding that we all need our own space.
Obesity is not a disease or a medical condition that is imposed on one. Please do not impose it on me.

Posted By Diane on April 20, 2009, 5:41 PM

I'll be flying United more now that I can be guaranteed that my seat neighbor won't be oozing into the space that I paid for. :)

BTW, putting in a sample seat at the gate is awesome!

Posted By Connie on April 20, 2009, 5:50 PM

Uh, NO!
Airlines make their seats smaller, belts shorter, flights more crowded, service worse, stick a television with ads in my face, fail to provide basic information, engage in convoluted tricky pricing and now they want to penalize large (read USA normal) people?
What is amazing is that we all put up with the abuse from the airline companies, one thing after another. I pity the poor flight attendants who are being turned into hall monitors. Although I have cut my flying to a minimum, it is still a miserable experience.
What I would really like to see is segregation of children, but that is an untouchable sacred issue. Children are dandy, breastfeeding is swell, but not in the seat next to me, thank you very much. What about the smelly, shabby, garulous, or as on one long, long flight from ATL to DEN unfortuneates with Tourette's syndrome.
I would urge compassion and an all-out attack on the airlines.

Posted By ted on April 20, 2009, 6:27 PM

the airlines pack passengers in like sardines now... I recently traveled from San Diego to Atlanta jammed in between to whales...I had to sit with my legs squeezed together and my arms crossed because both of the "fat asses" took up space that I had paid for..... if a person is too big to fit into one seat they should buy two prior to getting on the plane.

Posted By sowafeam on April 20, 2009, 6:38 PM

I would agree that these people need to pay for two seats. I pay for one full seat not 1/2 when I seat next to someone who takes part of mine.
I once took a trip with three sets I was by the window two very heavy people were in the other two seats along with a baby. This should not have happened. I will never sit in windowsea from that day on for fear of this happening again.

Posted By joan on April 20, 2009, 6:40 PM

What if an obese person is flying with someone who is not obese? I know a woman who is overweight, but she tries to be considerate of others by flying in a window seat with her young child seated next to her. Her child doesn't mind losing a little bit of the seat to her mom. Is United going to be really stringent with the rules and require them to purchase yet another seat?

Posted By Stella on April 20, 2009, 6:42 PM

I have read some of the comments and complaints.If an individual is too big to fit in the standard seats, they should be accommodated in other ways if they are removed from the plane, like a discount on their next flight or two seats on the next flight out. It is unfair to single out bigger people due to the fact that seats are smaller and belts shorter. It should be up to the individual whether or not they want to purchase an additional seat.I am also concerned like others, who gets to decide who is too big? There is also another way that bigger people can be accommodated. T he last time I flew I was placed by an emergency exit over the wing of the plane. These seats tend to be more spacious and with more leg room. The airline should have conducted a survey before they made this regulation. They should have asked bigger people for their input and this would have narrowed down compliants and lawsuits.

Posted By Dianne on April 20, 2009, 6:46 PM

This reminds me of a quote we learned in law school: "This is a touching world, and some touching must be tolerated." This whole scenario was played out in the movie Why Did I Get Married by Tyler Perry. It is a humiliating experience for the passenger. A policy that explicitly endorses this humiliating scene is wrong. Plain and simple. Traveling by it's very nature puts us into contact with people of all shapes and sizes. That is part of the experience when you sign up to go on a trip. If you want to remain in your bubble, then maybe you should think about staying home.

Posted By Sam on April 20, 2009, 6:52 PM

I feel sorry for everyone involved and I'm sure there is a humane way of dealing with this obese problem than to further humiliate the obese with a public demonstration of a airline seat in the boarding area for all to see. I agree something has to be done, but, let's do it in a discrete and as painless manner as humanly possible.

Posted By Jack Q. on April 20, 2009, 7:15 PM

If we weren't jammed into sardine class miniature seating, there wouldn't be a problem. This really has nothing to do with fat people. I'm an average size 5'8" women and I'm so jammed into the small area provided with each seat, my knees start hurting with the need to stretch them out. If all the seats were the size of 1st class seats, there wouldn't be a problem. I first flew in 1967 when the seats were ample and filet mignon was served for dinner in economy class. The airlines have decreased the services yearly until the seats and snacks are sized for children.

Posted By C LOPEZ on April 20, 2009, 7:19 PM

Obese people pay more for larger size clothing and for super size portions of food. Let them pay more for larger seats that fit them and keep them out of my space.

Posted By Rich on April 20, 2009, 7:28 PM

There MAY be disabilities act lawsuits, and a minute fraction of obese people have a disability, but it should be clear to anyone with even cursory familiarity with the law that ADA requires only reasonable accommodation -- and squashing other passengers is not reasonable at all.

Posted By Flying Light on April 20, 2009, 7:37 PM

I don't know what sickens me more--the greed of the airlines or the insensitivity and bigotry displayed by most of the people here. Yes, I understand that most of us put ourselves first, but some of the suggestions and comments here are apalling. Sure, if someone is 350 or 400 or more lbs, then an extra seat is within reason, But the real problem is not "obese" people; it's that the airlines squeeze in as many seats as possible in a very small space. One of my travel compainions is very petite and she is one of the few people I know that can sit comfortably in an airline seat. If you look at statistics, most American females are size 14 or larger. And despite what the fashion magazines indicate, that is NORMAL. A normal person barely fits and it doesn't take many extra lbs. to make a seat "too little." The solution is not humiliating people or ostracizing them; the solution is for the airlines to make seats larger with either a two/two split or a 3/2 split. Maybe add a little leg room too--or do we want to target tall people next? The can you fit in this seat idea--how humiliating to have to do that in public. Better to publish dimensions like airlines do for luggage. Just remember--we are talking about human beings here, not baggage.

Posted By JoAnn on April 20, 2009, 7:45 PM

Why not make the seats larger. I fly often, east coast to west coast and when you walk down the aisle the passengers look like a bunch of sardines. Even for an average size person the seats and leg rooms are inadequate. God forbid the passenger in front of you decides to recline their seat. And at the same time the person in your seat row decides to go to the rest room (excuse me, toilet). The discussion should also be about a matter of comfort and then we can talk about size. The whole ordeal challenges one nerves and comfort level.

Posted By Trina on April 20, 2009, 7:49 PM

A very tricky issue indeed.

My thoughts...

Having been asked by an obese passenger to lift the armrest (I refused) is insulting and rude. He was moved (obstensibly for free) to business class. I think they should have moved ME. Why reward people who can't fit in their seats?

I like the idea of having a "tester seat" before they get on, like for baggage and like they have at amusement parks, but it should be done in a private place.

I do think they should have to pay for two seats if they need two seats. They shouldn't get a free seat just because it's available. I like having an extra seat next to me too!

I also think they should have a few larger seats (that cost more, perhaps not 2x, since it costs the airlines more), so larger passengers can be more comfortable and have a ride that suits them.

It will be intersting to see how this plays out. I smell a lawsuit.

Posted By Stevin on April 20, 2009, 8:04 PM

Knowing that 30 something percent of the American population is obese, I think the airlines need to get with the times and create special seating. The could just make some of the seats in coach a bit bigger, so obese people aren't forced to buy a whole second seat or forcefully upgraded to first class.
If people have the option to buy a larger seat ahead of time, it would save a lot of embarrassment and conflict. Most people flying are not flying for the first time, so they know if they have trouble fitting in the seat.
As someone who is obese, it would be of much greater embarrassment to have to sit in a sample seat while checking in, than to just buy a larger seat to begin with.
I agree that smaller people should not be made to fly in greater discomfort than a coach seat already is, but at the same time it just sucks for everyone.

Posted By Abby on April 20, 2009, 8:08 PM

i have worked as a flight attendant for 10 years and i can see both sides of the story. think of it this way, if a person of size purchases a meal in restaurant and it doesn't satisfy them, do they get more for free?

Posted By flygirl on April 20, 2009, 8:10 PM

I think United is right and should have done something a long time ago. It is not a matter of discrimination it is a law of physics. I fly a lot of regional jets which are smaller planes and twice an obese person was stuck in their seat and had to be pulled out by the crew. Talk about embarrasing for them. I think if people are too obese they should not be allowed to fly from a safety point of few.

Posted By ljr on April 20, 2009, 8:26 PM

As a person of size...I do exercise and eat healthy foods but still oooooze over in the seats, I find many of these comments hurtful and spiteful.
When I do fly, I get an aisle seat so that I don't infringe on my neighbors space to, the point of keeping my arms crossed like I've been buried in a shroud across my body, and pull myself in so as not to inconvienience my seatmate.
Do they ever thank me for it?
Last time I flew the person I sat next to was hostile and rude, and i apologized but she never even had the courtesy to respond.
I like the idea of having seats made large to accomadate me but I can't afford to travel first or business class and am willing to pay for an extra seat, but having had the same seat sold out from under me without an offer of refund, I'm not willing to do that again.

Posted By Janet on April 20, 2009, 8:45 PM

Absolutely do require two seats for the obese. I am little and have had to sit by someone who was spreading through the seat - bottom and top! And to get up and go to the bathroom took nearly 3 minutes to just be able to get them up to let me out to go! Since obesity includes so many, maybe this will be an incentive for them to go on a diet or stay off planes.
Helene

Posted By Helene on April 20, 2009, 8:45 PM

I agree with United and other airlines. I have seen people too big to sit in one seat squeeze in and take up the seat of another paying passenger. One very large boarded out of turn so he could straddle two seats. When to other passenger arrived, he claimed he could not sit in one seat. The stewardess made the other poor girl move to the back. As soon as the plane took off, the big guy slid over, dropped both trays and spread out his business paperwork. Obviously he had the whole thing planned and probably does it frequently. I would have forced him off the plane before moving the other passenger.

Posted By Bruce W on April 20, 2009, 8:52 PM

Thanks United. I agree, putting in a sample seat at the gate would solve the problem of Bulge on Board. When seated, I see passengers coming down the isle and when I see a 300 pounder I pray "please, not next to me". It is SO unpleasant to sit next to a huffing, puffing, sweating, half on my lap, arms in my chest individual. It's just NOT Fair. It is uncomfortable enough with out putting up with that.
I will choose to fly with those who are sensitive to the needs of the passenger and don't expect us to share our seat with an Elephant.

Posted By Carolyn on April 20, 2009, 9:09 PM

It's "not about time", it's LONG OVER-DUE!!
Everything else in shipping is weight-based--eg, postage, FED-EX or UPS packages, so should bodies be.

And to top it off, these big, fat slobs not only take up all the room, but most of them are obnoxious in their behavior as well!

Posted By Edward G, on April 20, 2009, 9:29 PM

I completely agree, if you can't fit into your seat, you should have to buy two.

Posted By Linna on April 20, 2009, 9:34 PM

About time! No one should be inconvenienced and uncomfortable for hours at a time, because someone else, totally lacks self discipline. Let everyone pay for the space they need!

Posted By Norm on April 20, 2009, 9:38 PM

I only weigh 106 lbs, and overweight/larger people are happy to spread their space over into mine. They feel my small frame and size gives them more room to 'sprawl'. BTW - I exercise regularly and eat healthy foods to keep my weight down, or I could be just as large as many of the obese...as it runs in my family. So don't tell me it is a 'health' problem...start exercising and eat healthy!

Posted By Cheryl on April 20, 2009, 9:40 PM

Congratulation for the airlines to make pay for the obese people, I know some of them are taking medicine which make you gain weight. We do travel a lot and it is very unpleasant to have my half seat taking by these people, specially when you are trying to sleep. When we are flying outside the U.S. we do not have these problems. Maybe the airlines should put a piece of plywood on each side on the seat when they see an obese person and they will not be able to remove it, it will so unpleasant that the next time they will buy an extra seat.
Before boarding the plane an obese person should seat on a display seat and see if (he)(she) is require to buy another seat, (do it behind a curtain). The airlines should post weight requirements next to the baggage pamphlet when they book their ticket, they will not have any surprises.
In years we have seeing people carrying a lot of suitcases, bags, etc, nothing was organized. It is about time the airlines make pay for the suitcases, maybe the majority of the people will travel light. We travel light and we have everything we need (including formal clothing).
Hope the airlines will find some nice solutions.

Posted By Debbie on April 20, 2009, 9:41 PM

I think this is a bunch of crap!!!! Why are people targeting obese people? I have been heavy, I have been thin, I have been obese, I have been medium weight! Do you know that obesity is considered a disability? Given that, someone should sue the airlines for discrimination! Accommodations are made for other disabilities, we make accommodations for young children, for babies, for teenagers, etc. Give some love and consideration for others and stop being so selfish, America!

Posted By joyce on April 20, 2009, 9:44 PM

Perspective is an amazing thing. For my entire life I have flown, for many years as a child and teen I traveled internationaly to visit both sets of grandparents. During that time I was subjected to those passengers who couldn't bear to be parted from their cigarettes. As an adult I developed a hormonal imbalance that has caused my weight to bloom into the obese range. I don't over eat, as some have tried to symplistically suggest. Even the medical personel in my life are frustrated that despite all our best efforts my weight does not drop. I fly alot, and have always made accomodation for my seatmates, usually I fly with family or friends so we deal if the seats are re-strictive. But I can't tell you how many times that a "normal" sized person has taken over the entire row, wether I was in the seat or not. They brought all their luggage to stuff into the overhead, as well as to shove under the seat in front of them. One of my normal sized seatmates was very upset when I complained that she was infringing on my seat. She had her feet tucked up under her butt, and her knees pushing into my thighs. After 3 hours, one of the stews noticed how uncomfortable I was. Within 10 minutes she had moved me to the back row of business class where there was an open seat. Last summer I flew with my mother from florida to Boston and was amazed that so many people felt that they had paid for the right to complain, whine, bitch, and generally irritated the flight crew with things that were beyond their control. Now I have read thru the diatribe from a load of people who have decided that all the problems of flying are about to be solved because United has decided to force the obese to pay for an extra seat. I noticed that a number of people talked about what happens when they think ahead and buy said extra seat, 9 times out of 10, they are confiscated by the airline because they have oversold the flight. Before we start laying blame at my doorstep, I would like to see the airlines correct their own errors. I would also like to understand why I can fly comfortably on most european airlines, but am crampted on american. Next you'll be demanding that anyone over 6'2" needs to live with no feeling in their lower body because the person in front insists on laying their seat back. Surely they are to blame for their excess height, those pesky genes!

Posted By mer on April 20, 2009, 10:06 PM

It's Great! Long over-due. It is not pleasant sitting in 1/2 a seat when paid for a whole seat.
They need to pay for 2 seats instead of 1 and everyone will be comfortable.

Posted By Barbara Driscoll on April 20, 2009, 10:11 PM

Wow...some of these comments - what insensitivity! Obesity - the last thing that is still ok to be cruel about publicly. As for the "test seat" at the gate - yeah, right! As many have commented, the majority of US citizens are overweight and no one would go for that. How embarrassing - how could anyone even suggest that?!
However, there is something the airlines aren't even thinking about...SAFETY! The seats are designed for SAFETY too. If an obese person is forced to buy two seats...especially if they can't use the belt in one...what will they use in the two seats?? If a plane accident occurs and the obese passenger that was forced to buy a second seat (thereby not being seated safely in one) is harmed or dies because of the lack of safety by using two seats, can you imagine the lawsuits?
A better option for all would be to study the average makeup of plane flights - i.e. 15% are obese, 75% are "normal", 10% are small (children or petite). Then change the planes to have different sized seats for all these ranges and charge accordingly. That way, obese people are safe in a comfortable seat with a seatbelt that fits, normal people are comfortable as well and petite or children have a smaller, safer seat as well (and pay less). However, I'm sure this would never fly with the airlines' business model of GREED, but it's a thought. Passengers of all sizes & weights - UNITE!!

Posted By Michelle on April 20, 2009, 10:27 PM

United said they had approximately 700 complaints among 63 million passengers served. That's 2 complaints a day or roughly a 1:90,000 ratio.

Considering that 60%+ of this country's population is overweight; and over 30% of this country's population is obese, there is a STAGGERING amount of intolerance displayed in the comments in this thread. Why would any of you people think it's not okay to discriminate people on the basis of race, sex or creed but it is OK to slam them based on their body size?

How dare you

"....since virtually all obese people who can't fit into an airline seat voluntarily ate their way there..."

Wrong, wrong, WRONG. Yes, there ARE those who "voluntarily ate their way there", thanks to our "SuperSize Me" way of life. Thank the media for constantly shoving down our throats the idea that the "perfect" and "desirable" people must be size 2 - and they run that side by side with constant adds about huge portions of junk food! Seriously, can't you understand why our country's health is SO out of whack?

I grew up in a household where my mother always made sure we ate properly. I was not allowed much excess sugar but by high school, I was a size 14. In high school, I did three varsity sports a year (soccer, indoor track, and track) and despite exercising three hours a day, I wasn't losing weight. The doctors can't find anything wrong with me to explain it. I hit my top weight three years ago and through stripping my diet down to bare bones (fruit, veggies, lean meat, minimal carbs, minimal sugar) I have lost 80 lbs. I still have a lot more to go, but I do not take up 2 full seats - or even a seat and a half. Know what really is the pits? I carry my weight in my hips/thighs, which means little teeny airline seats are uncomfortable. I've seen people who are very fat from the waist up plop right into the same seats that make me very uncomfortable.

I'm embarrassed when I end up in an airline seat that's too tight, so whenever I can afford to do so, I pay for the upgrades and save myself the embarrassment. But not every flyer can afford to do that. Some can barely afford the plane ticket to begin with, and the airlines want them to buy a second seat?

ONCE I bought an extra seat in an effort to prevent somebody sitting next to me so I would have comfort on a 5-hour cross-country flight (it was a cheaper option than business class). Guess what? The airline had overbooked the flight, and when they came down the aisle and saw the empty seat, they didn't even listen to my explanation (and ticket proof) that I'd paid for an extra seat. They sat a frazzled woman and her screaming infant in the empty seat I had *paid* for, and they didn't give me a refund or offer me an upgrade in exchange for my two seats. I was squeezed into the window seat and miserable for the entire flight. So you see, even when they TELL you to do something like buy an extra seat to "prevent" issues like this, they do not enforce it - at least not in favor of the fat people.

Airlines have one goal: to make money. Their price structures are designed to make the most money off those travelers who travel frequently - business travelers - and as a result, these are the people who get rewarded the most frequently with upgrades etc. The rest of us are just cash fodder to fill up the rest of the plane for maximum profit.

When I fly, I often try to pick the last rows in the plane when I'm choosing my seats - not because I want to, but because I know other people don't like these seats and they're usually the last to fill up, so about 60% of the time, there's an extra seat back there. But why should I be practically forced to sit in the crappy seats at the back of the plane, like I'm some vile dredge of humanity, because of my pants size?

Why can't airlines recognize that Americans ARE FAT, and instead of constantly shaving off room left and right, do something useful like add a couple rows of "economy wide" seating, and give priority on those seats to people who genuinely need them? Of course, you skinny people will have to play fair and not attempt to get into those seats because you want the extra hip room without paying for an upgrade - can't have it both ways. If you don't want the obese people next to you, then you can't sit in their seats, either.

Posted By Frequent flyer on April 20, 2009, 10:52 PM

This is great. I am tired of paying for my seat and only being able to occupy 2/3 (or less) of it.

Posted By russelling on April 20, 2009, 10:54 PM

As much as I hate paying for my luggage now, I can understand why airlines had to do it. Some of us used to overpack and got away with it. Now we are paying the price. Total weight of bags and people have a direct relationship to the fuel consumption and the SAFETY of the flight. Overweight planes cause crashes; simple as that. My husband was a pilot and this issue is REAL; not a ruse by the airlines. I have no problem with a total weigh in approach. I agree with the recommendation to "fit" questionable candidates into a plane seat at the gate BEFORE boarding the plane. Otherwise there is going to be a scene and a flight delay, again, unfair to the rest of us.

It seems the overwhelming majority of us agree that the obese should pay for a 2nd seat. Or they should buy one in Business Class or First class. They know who they are and can spare themselves the embarassment by planning ahead. I am currently overweight and take full responsibility for it. It is NOT a disease; it's from too many christmas cookies, lack of self control and a sedentary job at a computer. It's well documented that we have an obesity epidemic in the US. Our portions are "super sized" and do not use healthy ingredients. Just look at people in other countries; you will not see 1/10th the number of fat people. It's time for us to knock off the over-consumption and take responsibility. I will be losing my extra weight before I have any plane seat issues!

Posted By Mary on April 20, 2009, 11:02 PM

As a former flight atttenant, I agree that people that can not fit into the seat should purchase another seat. It is not discrimination, it is common sense. A regular size person has the right to use the entire seat they paid for.

Posted By andrea on April 20, 2009, 11:04 PM

After being wedged between the bulkhead and two very overweight people in a London-JFK flight over 25 years ago I swore-off window seats. However, a bigger beef (no pun intended) is babies and young children: they cry, they take swipes at you, they vomit, if already mobile, they will need to get to the aisle any number of times (I always fly in an aisle seat). I will switch my frequent flier program to the first airline that offer baby and child free flights. Abel Marquez

Posted By abel marquez on April 20, 2009, 11:57 PM

I agree with the decision that United made concerning people who are over weight. I am an over weight person and my shoulders are broad and do intrude into the other seat. Two years ago I flew on a small commuter plane. There were just two seats for two large people. It was painful. I decided then that for my own comfort and to be fair to the person next to me I would either buy two coach seats or one first class seat. I don't fly very often and the additional expense is difficult for me to absorb. But it is the right thing to do. On my most recent flight I bought a first class seat. Oh Wow! There was plenty of room. I didn't have troube getting into my seat or worry about bumping into the person next to me or invading their space.

Posted By Robert Nordmark on April 21, 2009, 12:13 AM

What about if the airline companies build in a section/row of seats that can accommodate obese people...and then have the remainder of the seats servicing the majority of the passengers. Wouldn't this keep everyone civil?

Posted By Stephanie on April 21, 2009, 1:14 AM

I don't know how much most of you fly, but for work and pleasure I fly a lot. There is nothing worst then getting into your seat (say near the window) and have a person 300+ sitting on you, you can't move and your pressed against the window. I think if you cant fit with the armrest down buy another seat! For the people that say, "Oh im skinny can i sell my half." Dont be stuipd. someone said, "Whos to say a person's obese." When your sitting on the person next to you! When you cant put the armrest down. I have gotten off the plane with other peoples sweat on me, because they were leaning on me. Yes all airlines should do it. they charge for extra baggage

Posted By trish on April 21, 2009, 1:31 AM

I don't know if it's me but as one who has relatives and friends in the US, a lot of the people on this thread are a bunch of whining, no good F-Wits!

I'm between 17-18 stone [UK] at the moment and I hit the gym on a regular basis all the time but the fact that there are people out there who are willing to blame obese people for taking up space on US aircraft rather than the airlines for not making the seats bigger, I don't know...

Over here, the likes of most charter airlines and airlines like Virgin Atlantic offer for a extra fee; seats that are slightly bigger than the regular Economy seats along with other benefits AND people who are obese aren't made to feel bad unlike obese Americans who have just as much right to fly as regular Americans...

Posted By ShuratoHidaka on April 21, 2009, 2:09 AM

It's somewhat ironic that years ago United had age, weight, and marital status limits for what we then called "stewardesses." Many years later, court rulings not only made United throw those out but reinstate flight attendants who were forced out.

We've come full circle: United is now imposing weight and size standards on its passengers.

But as somebody who has had to endure a middle seat squeezed between two oversized coach passengers, I would appreciate the relief. In that instance, I was on a Southwest flight and my mantra was: "It's only 90 minutes, it's only 90 minutes." I'd hate to be in the same situation on a trans-continental or trans-ocean United flight.

Posted By Tom K. on April 21, 2009, 3:42 AM

Airlines provide each passenger an allocated amount of luggage weight per passenger and an allocated amount of seat space. If we go over either of these amounts, we should pay a premium.

One consideration- what if the airlines create a single row of "special needs" seats within the coach section that are sold at a premium price? It might be something like economy plus but wider instead of more legroom. Cost would be relative to the amount of space designated.

Posted By Christine on April 21, 2009, 4:09 AM

As much as I sympathize with people who feel infringed upon, sometimes weight isn't a choice, it's a medical issue. If airlines were to start discriminating based on race or religion people would be throwing a fit. Why is it okay to discriminate based on what could well be a medical issue.

Are the airlines to start making exceptions based on doctors note that assure them that the passenger does indeed have a medical condition that prevents them from losing weight?

FYI, I am not fat. I'm a size 8, but I have trouble fitting into the tiny seats because of my height. I have a lot of sympathy for people who feel encroached upon. I have been seated next to obese people during flights and it's not much fun, but if we start discriminating there, where will it end? Are we going to discriminate agains people who are too tall and constantly bump into the seat in front of them? Or someone who is too broad in the shoulders? They take up space too, and they're aren't necessarily fat.

And what if the airline started discriminating against people with other disabilities? Maybe someone in a wheelchair shouldn't fly because it takes too long for them to board and disembark? Should someone with hearing loss not fly because they may have a hard time communicating in an emergency situation?

I can't wait to see what lawsuits this brings about.

Posted By Jen on April 21, 2009, 4:18 AM

I am a "woman of size" and I actually agree with the policy. Regardless of the fact that airlines have in fact made the seats smaller, each person should be entitled to the amount of space they paid for.

But here's the thing. Janet above wrote that she was "willing to pay for an extra seat, but having had the same seat sold out from under me without an offer of refund, I'm not willing to do that again."
This cannot be allowed! If you are going to make me pay for second seat, then it is MY seat. They shouldn't be able to re-sell it to someone else.

And lots of airlines don't allow us second-seat buyers any additional overhead storage space. Why not? If we were two people we would get two people's worth of space? We're not getting all the space we paid for.

And all of you complaining about us "fatties" crowding you need to understand that you don't get to use our space in our second seat. I know folks who have purchased two seats, only to find the skinny flyer on the other side put all of THEIR stuff on the second seat, use the tray table, etc. If one of you ever tries to do that to me, I will complain loudly. I need extra space for my "stuff" (ie body mass) and so I paid for it. If you need extra space for your stuff, then pony up the dough for your OWN second seat.

Posted By luckymama on April 21, 2009, 7:03 AM

A few points.

If an overweight person buys an extra seat ahead of time and the airline has this policy in place then the responsible person does what? Looses the seat when the Irresponsible Airline overbooks the flight?

I hate sitting next to Overweight people on planes and I have many Intercontinental Flights to my credit. But damn, if the airlines are going to jerk people around then maybe its time that there were Government approved guidelines that state unequivocally what is and isn't correct policy.

After all if an overweight person purchases two seats ahead of time and is bumped from one them then the airline is violating it's own policy about weight distribution (we can't move durning take off and landing) and also it's ticketing policy about making same people buy extra seats. Not to mention just being hypocritical asses.

I think that it is time that you buy a bailment for a specific amount of space and weight when you purchase your ticket. The airlines had better be careful what they ask for because when this starts to happen those of us who are standard weight will be asking for our full allotment of weight in baggage. The overweight people will be fine in slightly larger seats and less baggage. And, the airlines will be screwed because they pushed to hard in their greed and somebody decided to get the government involved.

After all, the one thing you don't want to hear as a business is, "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

The law suits are going to happen unless the airlines have extremely concise guidelines or parameters as to what is allowed or not allowed. I for one as a 6'1.5", 190 pound male with one well behaved small child is going to laugh my but off (thereby loosing more weight :) when this backfires.

Oh and another thing. Airlines should NOT allow people to pre Reserve Seats in exact locations. You should be given only preferences and those of us with children in families should be given preference to sit together as a family. Notice I did not say we should be given aisle seats or window seats but just seats together. Nothing is more lonely than being on the same plane as your family and not being able to talk to them or see them.

Well, unless you have a medical reason. I will be reasonable. :)

Posted By B Marten on April 21, 2009, 7:34 AM

Bravo United!
I hope the bullies and whiners DO sue, then have to pay United's legal costs when they lose. I've done ADA planning and would be amazed if someone could use ADA, since "accommodation" (for a price) is feasible. The real outrage is the supersize types who bully their way into a first class seat, while those who had upgrades requested are stuck in coach.

Posted By TomTellefsen on April 21, 2009, 8:20 AM

what if the person has very big muscular shoulders do they pay for the extra room they take up. what are the size the person must be? the width the person must be? hight and size and weight requirments. what if that person is a young child traveling by themselves. do they pay extra???. unfare to the normal people. they say that bening to skiny is not healthy, then what is??. unfare to the adveage person. question? does the polite pay extra? for there size of there seat? most of ur congress is over weight/ how do they fail about this new program? we all should ask them.

Posted By phyllis on April 21, 2009, 9:02 AM

One of the problems with the "fat" issue is that so many people want to victimize fat people .... such as "no one wants to be fat" and "they have a disorder", etc. The public must stop allowing these people to feel like victims. They have been given access to handicap parking, and provided electric scooters to name just a couple of benefits for being fat. Yes, I am sympathetic to their problem of being fat, but let's face it, it is their problem. Only they can do something about it. It takes discipline and self-control. I cannot give that to them, nor can anyone else. I am always amazed at the nerve of the obese people who are boarding a plane, and many times they are sitting on a electric cart while they wait. Why in the world should any of us be expected to allow them to spill over into our seat. We shouldn't! I applaud United for their new policy. I hope other airlines follow their lead.

Posted By Becky on April 21, 2009, 9:27 AM

I have prayed numerous times on many planes not to have the obese passenger walking down the aisle sit next to me. Just like allowable carry on luggage is defined by length x width x height by the airlines, they should post the width of the seat with arm rest down in all seat categories. Obese passengers could measure their girth before purchasing a ticket and know beforehand if they meet the requirements or will have to purchse 2 seats. Better yet, just as premium location seats are offered at extra costs, the airlines should change one row of economy three seats into a row of two extra wide seats and charge a premium for them.

Posted By df on April 21, 2009, 10:55 AM

It's not a question of defining obesity or why someone is so large. It's a simple question of renting enough space to put oneself in to take the ride from A to B. If you ship a prcel you pay by weight and size based on a formula.

Why is the question of "human rights" have any place in the subject of "shipping" yourself on an airplane, which is exactly what you are doing.
The meals, magazines, movies and other extras are mere marketing tools for the airline and are used to get you on to the plane with a particular company and for no other reason. Free wine does not make the flight any more utilitarian than a flight without "free wine"

Posted By ronn m on April 21, 2009, 11:05 AM

I am a "person of size". I do not comfortably fit into a "standard" airline seat (especially not anymore, since they've shrunk them so much). I would be willing to pay for an extra seat, or a larger seat, ONLY if they also require the person with extra long legs or extra wide shoulders, or who is extra tall, also purchase extra space. I have sat behind a guy who fit into the space between the two arm rests, but he was a tall, stocky guy with long legs and wide shoulders. He "spilled over" into the seats on either side of him (his shoulders did) and his long legs prevented the person in front of him from putting their seat back even a little bit, but HE put HIS seat back far enough that I couldn't use my tray table at all.

It should be all or nothing. Either they post set size restrictions (including height, leg length, shoulder width, etc.) and if you vary in ANY way from those standards, you pay for extra space, OR they need to decide it's one person/one fare. They can't have it both ways.

And for the record: I eat a lot less than a whole lot of other people I know, yet I'm "overweight" and they aren't. Those who have suggested that if I just "ate less" or "went on a diet" I would lose weight, haven't got a clue. Ask my doctor. She'll tell you all the different ways I've tried losing weight, to no avail. I believe that 50 years from now, when we "know" better, we'll look back at society's views on obesity and dieting and just shake our heads in disbelief at the ignorance and bigotry.

Posted By Valentine on April 21, 2009, 12:07 PM

Well, well, well...here we go again. Did you ever notice that whenever we go through rough economic times we have to find a scapegoat to take our anger out on! So today it's people possibly with health issues, those who are overweight, fat, obese. Yes all those trigger words that create emotional frenzies!

We Americans have become world travelers and we have also become Fatter! So what do the airlines do...they cut out as many amenities as they can, charge for your luggage, think about charging to use the bathrooms! cram as many seats in as possible ignoring everyone's comfort.

How about if the airlines made an effort to accommodate the larger size American, which by the way is more common today than ever, and the taller, longer legged person, or the person who is not obese but has a larger bottom...and on and on.

Yes, I would like to see the airlines solve these issues in a more positive, respectful way and not make the traveler feel like a freak because they can't compete on "America's Next Top Model!!!"
It is not for the traveler to make it more comfortable for the airline...the airlines are supposed to be making ALL travelers comfortable.

By the way, even if others have felt this to be an issue before, it wasn't as BIG an issue until the price of oil went thru the roof...then the airlines looked for any way they could save money and targeted obese people.

I would like to see a survey of the percentage of people who need to buy 2 seats. If not that many, then the airlines should just have a couple of "larger seats" set aside...if there are a lot, then they should just make all the seats larger, like they once were, and stop promoting a negative attitude against any person that can't fit the airlines Model-type!

Posted By chrisi on April 21, 2009, 12:08 PM

I am writing again, because I want to clarify the difference between discriminating against an obese passenger versus discriminating against someone's race or age. The airlines aren't discriminating against someone's size, they are merely stating that you need to be able to fit in one seat if you have only paid for one. The elderly, young, black, white, or latino flyer isn't taking up more than one seat because of their age or race.

This isn't about discrimination, it is about the comfort of the flyer. I am 5'2" tall and weigh 110 pounds. I shouldn't have to share my seat with a large flyer who cannot fit into their seat.

With that being said, the airlines should make seats bigger, but they have actually made them smaller to fit more people into a plane for their own profit. Flying would be much more comfortable if everyone had more room to spread out. I fly with my son who is 5'8" and 150 pounds. Even he has trouble getting into his seat comfortably, because of the small amount of leg room.

Posted By Vickie on April 21, 2009, 12:13 PM

I am a 5'8" 150 pound endurance athlete. I compete in ultra endurance events and I am by no means overwieght or large in any way. Yet, even I cannot fit my shoulders in the space allotted. If I am seated next to another average sized adult male our shoulders are competing for space and I half to lean into either the aisle or an adjacent seat to avoid this problem.
Yes, obese people are certainly infringing on the space of adjacent passengers and this is not fair. I agree that abnormally large people who cannot even fit the seatbelt around their waist with an extender should half to pay extra in order to avoid violations against adjacent passengers. However, the seats are too small and the airlines need to address this issue as well or we will all just half to learn to be more like other people in the world who are willing to sit (literally) on top of each other to get where they need to go.

Posted By Dom on April 21, 2009, 1:02 PM

I'd say it's about darn time. This is a step in the right direction. Perhaps next we can get the weight distribution issue settled. An Obese person plus one normal sized bag on a plane is a lot heavier than me and my overweight bag and then some. It's time for American's to begin looking at obesity as it should be viewed, a example of laziness, in most cases that is.

Posted By Jeff on April 21, 2009, 1:15 PM

I SAT BETWEEN TWO HUGE PERSONS, EACH OVER 300 POUNDS ON A LONG FLIGHT. IT WAS HORRIBLE. NOT ONLY SITTING THERE, BUT THEN TRYING TO GET OUT. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS HOW TO DEFINE OBESITY. I WAS SQUEEZED LIKE A HOT DOG BETWEEN TWO BUNS. NO PUN INTENDED.

Posted By MARK on April 21, 2009, 2:05 PM

Human Rights come into play because humans are involved.

Posted By Michel on April 21, 2009, 2:19 PM

Forget size of seat. Everyone pay based on weight. Everything about a plane is governed by weight and balance. Weight governs fuel required to fly a given distance, power required to get off the ground, how the aircraft is loaded. If you are over a certain weight - you get two seats, if smaller -- one. If you lie about your weight when you book a seat ahead of time - you go to the end of the line and fly space available.

Posted By Bob on April 21, 2009, 4:30 PM

I am disappointed in United. I too have had to sit next to overweight people on planes, however I do not believe they should be penalized. People cannot always control their body types. I do not feel that they should be punished for their genes. I know of someone who is normal sized everywhere but her hips and butt and would cause the armrest to creep up. However, this is due to genes. People need to exercise a little patience. I'd much rather sit next to an obese person than a baby, or screaming toddler.

Posted By j on April 22, 2009, 5:22 AM

If you think it is hard for the person sitting next to an overweight person, you should see how hard the overweight person works to keep out of your space, and try and understand the embarrassment they feel trying to fit into obscenely small plane seats. Tall people are not made to purchase the seats in front or back of them. People with children are not made to buy a row of seats, so their children will not disturb others. What about the business person, using their Blackberry during the entire flight, should they buy us all flight insurance? Yes, you may be that person on the plane that annoys others! Should it cost you extra?

Posted By Emmy T on April 22, 2009, 2:44 PM

As an overweight passenger I too have been infringed on by others even bigger than myself and although the situation was not comfortable for any of us no one complained. I do however take exception to the person in front of me putting their seat back almost in my lap! I leave my seat in the upright position so as not to infringe on the person behind me and I expect the same from the person in front of me. If I am forced to purchase 2 seats I pity the person on the other side of the empty seat. I assure you I will not permit them to utilize my seat in any way, shape or form and if I do not need to leave my seats during the flight then neither do they!!!
And what about those passengers whose legs extend into the aisle?? Will they also be forced to purchase an extra seat to accommodate their length so they can sit sideways and not have their feet or legs at one time or another out in the aisle when people are trying to move about the cabin?
It amazes me that the airlines are now worried about "obese" passengers and the "discomfort" we cause others. How about fixing the "lost baggage" problem, or the "flight delays" that cause missed connections or the ever popular "screaming child" that effects far more passengers than than the ones on either side of them. It seems to me that the "obese" person is the only one people can still discriminate against and not run the risk of being politically incorrect.

Posted By Kathy on April 22, 2009, 4:44 PM

United, the Friendly Skies....not so! This is the airline that charges you to sit in the exit row, when really it should be a matter of safety, think back to the wonderful water landing of this past year, and when the folks sitting in the exit rows had to do their jobs.

The obesity part is very difficult. The seats are smaller and the average American is larger. All the perks are gone, and we wonder why one flies at all. Hopefully a better solution can be arrived at. The humilations at the security check points are somewhat tempered, but this has not prevented abuse. We are not looking at hamburgers here....people all coming in one shape and size, but a need to try and deal with real issues. However, consideration from everyone concerned is needed. I have had unaccompanied children plunked down by me by flight hostesses, and then been expected to entertain for miles and miles. Also, I have sometimes been trapped by business types that try to one up each other to the point of ad nasuem. I do feel that this matter needs consideration, mediation, and what ever happened to the old airline regulations?

Posted By Dona on April 22, 2009, 8:21 PM

I am a big girl, but rarely have a problem fitting into airline seats. On an occasion or two (depending on the type of plane) I have needed an extender. That said, I think this is a bunch of bull. Bottom line is that they are trying to squeeze as many seats on a plane as possible instead of having accommodations for the ever-increasing population of robust citizens. Even though I fit into the seat, I am only 5'7" tall and my knees are in the back of the seat in front of me. If the person reclines, they are practically in my face. So, you see, the problem has more to do with the space they are allocating per individual than it has to do with obese people. Yes, obesity is an issue. But it is one of many as many posters have stated.

Once I flew next to a passenger who was 'average-sized' but he was covered with red blotches -- on his face, neck and hairline. In addition, his skin was shedding. It looked nothing like sunburn. It looked more like lesions. Throughout the flight he scratched and scratched and each time, dead skin was falling off onto him and me. DISGUSTING!!!

So, you see, we all have something we could complain about. Stop being so quick to pounce on negativity when you feel you are not the one being targeted. The decision by United Airlines is missing a lot of other less-than-desirable passenger behaviors or 'encroachments'.

Posted By Kay on April 23, 2009, 5:48 PM

Perhaps they could put in two larger seats where there are three seats (2-4 of these per plane) and charge the obese person 150% instead of double the charge, that way the airline doesn't lose money on less seats, but the obese are not charged double.

For those of you who think this is harsh, imagine spending over 1000 dollars for an international overnight flight for 6-9 hours and being shoved out of your seat by the fat person next to you sleeping and putting their enormous arms on the chair arm, with their fat dripping over onto you, while they loudly snore (and breathe like an asthsmatic pug dog when awake), make it impossible for you to get up and go to the bathroom, and smell awful (guess the sweat gets stuck in the fat or it's hard to reach and wash or something). I have experienced this and had the most horrendous night, when there wasn't another empty seat on the plane! They may be miserable (self inflicted) but why do they have the right to make others miserable?

Posted By Elizabeth Alexander on April 23, 2009, 6:51 PM

Hooray for United....One three hour flight with only half a seat was enough for me. A number of years ago a very, very overweight woman sat next to me in the middle seat coming home from Lauderdale, once seated she put the arm rest up and blup, half of my seat was covered with her body. I sat with my back to her and my legs in the aisle, only to move them when the drink cart came by. The NWA attendants couldn't have been more apologetic, however, there was not a single vacant seat on the flight. It's never happened to me again, but I fly quite a bit and I've seen it happen to others. I've always felt that if you can't fit in the seat, buy two...why make someone else uncomfortable for hours at a time.

Posted By Lin on April 23, 2009, 6:53 PM

You should be able to fit within your seat or get another ticket. I have two experiences that were very difficult for me. I sat on one woman's overflowing thigh. Not a pleasant experience. Another time, a very large gentleman almost smothered me. I am not a thin person, but I do fit within my seat. I want my space. I paid for my space. You pay for your space. If your space needs to be larger...pay for it. Please stay out of my space!

Posted By jmb on April 24, 2009, 11:45 PM

I spent an entire plane ride in a middle seat with a woman who could not sit between the arms of the seat. She simply lifted the arm and shoved herself into half of my seat, leaving me to snuggle up to her stinky hot body ( we were flying from Mexico to Detroit}. The flight was full and the stewardess gave the woman a seatbelt extender. I paid full price for half a seat and the worst flight in my life. She even brought 3 pinatas on the flight.....what a hassel!

Posted By jane on April 25, 2009, 10:07 AM

Yes!! I am glad to finally see the airlines do something about people who simply cannot stop stuffing their cake hole. The seats are small enough for normal sized people, but when "Fatty Patty" sits next to me and takes up half of my seat, that is going too far. I like to fly and I like to get to know the person next to me, for me, that is part of the joy of flying. But I also like to breath and be semi comfortable. If you don't fit into one seat, buy 2 or stay home.

Posted By Esta on April 25, 2009, 4:17 PM

I wish all the airlines would let anyone buy two seats if they want to, and if you've paid for them, you couldn't be forced to give them up. I would always buy 3 seats across for my husband and me. I don't understand why the airlines don't do this -- it would be a lot cheaper for them to fly a plane with an empty but paid-for seat, as the overall weight would be much less.

Posted By Marcia on April 25, 2009, 5:41 PM

Re: Fat Flyer's remarks... Referring to a flight attendant as a "skywaitress" only perpetuates the notion that fat people only think about eating 24/7. You of all people should be more conscious of that... On a 2nd note - "skywaitresses" are able to differentiate between obese people and people of healthy size because the guidelines specifically state that the armrest must be able to go completely down and the "person of size" must not be taking up room on the other side of the armrest...

Posted By Erika on April 26, 2009, 8:25 PM

I personally have more problem being a "captive" audience for every loud mouth who wants to vent or retell the highlights of their vacation in a voice loud enough to be heard all over the cabin. How about an "annoying" surcharge and let the passengers decide who qualifies?

As far as obesity, I hope those of us who do not qualify understand that this affects an obese person's ENTIRE life, so if I am uncomfortable for a few hours . . . well, maybe just get over myself and practice some compassion. If United feels the need to move an obese passenger I think it should be to first class, so they can be treated nicely for once, instead of the ridicule that everyone believes is justified.

Posted By Jla on April 26, 2009, 11:03 PM

Do you think an overweight person flying with their thin spouse should be required to purchase an extra seat. The only person affected would be the spouse if the spouse had a middle seat. How about also charging for the person too tall that has their knees in my back and I can not recline my seat, or the parent holding a child who kicks me or screams. If a pregnant woman needs an extender should she be required to buy an extra seat? Whaqt happens if someone squeezes into the belt and cut off circulation and suffer dire consequences---will the airline be sued?

Posted By Linda on April 27, 2009, 4:35 PM

If you don't like it, drive or take Amtrak. If you don't like those two options, DIET!

Posted By Evan on April 30, 2009, 7:55 AM

I am sorry to hear and see all the remarks and comments. I am not obese and I fit into my seat, However for years I always will be next to the person that opens a newspaper in my face, reads a book using my space and a lap top using my space. I must tell you that most of the fat people I am next too are much nicer and do none of the above. However, the obtuse fit and trim people think they can utilize all the space needed for their comfort? I do not think so? I do not enjoy air travel any more and it is getting worse every year. People need to be kinder to others, period.

Posted By Cy Marlow on April 30, 2009, 1:30 PM

Airline seats in economy have shrunk from an average of 19" to 16.5-17" in width since the 1970s. The distance between the seats, most often referred to as pitch has also shrunk from an average of 36" to as little as 31". I am a United flyer, primarily because of the Economy Plus (E+) section. You pay extra, or in my case, fly a great deal in order to sit there. What really bugs me is that on full flights they will shove extra people in the E+ section who probably did not pay extra for that privilege. The airlines should be similarly accommodating when it comes to persons of size and not charge extra unless there is no extra space available, but than that space MUST be there. The best solution, as has been mentioned by others is to install a few rows of wider seating to accommodate these passengers in their comfort and that of other, thinner customers. This section, call it E++ perhaps, should also have an extra charge associated with it, but not a double-fare. To be fair though, it should only be for those with size issues for the normal seating, and not be considered an extra perk for those not challenged in this way. If the seats there are not filled, than others can be seated, but not before.

While I do not condone overeating and becoming obese as a result, please understand that in this country every single eating establishment seems to go out of their way to create increasingly larger and more fattening meals. We have eliminated PE in many of the public schools and there are many children that do no exercise at all, just sit, eat, text, and play video games. Unless we change these things, we will continue to be an obese nation.

Posted By Bob Kane on April 30, 2009, 4:20 PM

Prices should be per person. They should have large seats for this problem. Make the seats larger put less people in the plane so everyone can be more comfortable & have elbow room. It is not the heavy persons fault that the airlines try to cram too many people into the plane.

Posted By susan on April 30, 2009, 8:17 PM

Some folks need to get a life. How many times was it necessary to blog this situation? Scary! I worked in the airline industry. The seats were wider and people were smaller. Today the situation has switched people are larger and the seats smaller. All of the "skinnys" are probably 30 to 40 lbs larger than their parents. Face it we are all taking up too much space....whether you are what today is normal weight or larger.
Everyone should "try" not casting the "first" stone!

Posted By Jen on May 7, 2009, 1:30 PM

So the airlines say that because 100's (I think the original report from United said less than 300 in one year) of people of the millions that fly complained, they need to move forward with this policy. Okay, if that is the situation, then let's band together against all the other travel infringements. If the rest of us complain because the brute in front of us insists not just on leaning seat back as far as possible, but then constantly pushing to see if it will go back farther, aren't they taking "the space I paid for" since now I can't do anything without their head essentially in my lap? How about the person behind me that simply must get up over and over again, and in order to do so, must use my seat back (and sometimes my hair) to leverage themselves up. Are they taking up space I paid for - should they pay extra? How about the person who brings on a bag (or 4) that is clearly larger than stated requirements so I have to put my small bag under the seat limiting my ability to put my feet and legs anywhere comfortable? Or worst of all, those folks who bring on rude, crying, yelling, running up and down the aisle and wriggling children? I mean, after all, having children was a life choice, and I didn't get to choose to have your child that you didn't pay for a seat for slobber on me and make constant noise such as to make my whole trip miserable. If enough of us just constantly complain about everyone else can the airlines simply get richer and richer by penalizing absolutely everyone possible, since all anyone cares about is "me, me, me?" Great for the airlines (after all, does anyone really believe after all your flying that they care about our experience and comfort AT ALL?) --- bad for our humanity and generosity to fellow man......

Posted By jln on May 8, 2009, 12:18 AM

I have spent a trip literally pinned against the window because an overweight person was seated next to me. I couldn't move and as I am arthritic, I was very uncomfortable, actually in pain. This is totally unfair. Yes, yes, yes, the obese should be made to pay for two seats!

Posted By skatingfan on May 11, 2009, 4:53 AM

As a plus-sized flyer, I can not tell you the difficulties I've had attempting to purchase a 2nd seat.

Aer Lingus flatly refused... REFUSED... to sell me a 2nd seat. British Airways and my travel agent 'lost' the seat that I paid for so I had to deal with BA staff having a meltdown over it. There should be an easier way to buy the 2nd seat, so next time I don't need to wait for the CS Supervisor to figure out how to do it.

Posted By no one on May 11, 2009, 11:46 AM

OMG i can not believe the intolerance diaplayed here. I have several million miles flown and have probably had all of these situations and you no what - they all "passed" they were "temporary". But the majority of the time my problem comes from someone reclining their seat. I realize if you are tall you don't have any choice. I'm 5'11". I quit wearing heels with my business suits year ago because it made my knees so high they ABSOLUTELY did not fit in the seats. So, I just carry them along. I am also quite large bustes. I love to read. Especially when I fly. It's a luxury to have this down time. Well the book barely fits between me and the seat in front of me (since the airlines have made the room smaller); and if the person in front of me is forced to recline their seat because they are tall and need the leg roon, then the book won't fit at all. Thus, several hours of staring mindlessly at the top of someones head. So the problem is not with us - it is with the airlines! We are getting larger. Generations are larger than their forebearers, yet the seats are smaller - makes no sense. And those of you who have the fortune to be the tiny/small people in the world; count your blessings instead of your grievances - (and stop reclining the seats when you don't need the leg room!)

Posted By get a grip on May 11, 2009, 5:26 PM

I'd rather sit next to a heavy person than deal with crying babies,spoiled brats, and their self absorbed parents.

Posted By marygee on May 12, 2009, 7:58 AM

I'm a very small person and quite possibly one of the few that doesn't feel so crammed in an airline seat. I have family members of larger size so I am quite sensitive to the issue. I think the problem is indeed the size of the seats. We don't live in HK or Japan where the average person is quite small. Here in the US its quite the opposite. Airlines should be made provide some extra seating for larger sized passengers regardless of its extra wide seats or extra legroom for taller passengers. If buildings are made to build wheelchair accessible entrances than airlines can provide this small measure of comfort for the people who help keep their businesses afloat.

A large person may not be able to help their size, but a parent can discipline their child and teach them that's its rude to kick the seat in front of you.

This problem doesn't only affect airlines, but also public transportation where the seats are so small and the person next to you is spilling into your seat. I do have a problem with people invading my space, but I think there are viable solutions to be able to mend this if they really wanted to. I mean how much would it really cost to remove a few rows of seats in coach and add a couple of new ones? They provide seats with extra legroom for an added charge so why not provide seats with extra width that a passenger can purchase in the privacy of their own home without being publicly humiliated? Everyone deserves to arrive at their designation thought being delayed which in essence is what would happen to these passengers if they have to be booked on another flight.

Posted By NiqueB on May 14, 2009, 11:17 AM

I am not a lightweight, but I fit in the seat as purchased. Big people pay extra for their clothing, why should seat space be any different. If you go to a sporting event or concert and cannot fit in the seat- tough luck. Same with an airplane.

Posted By MJW on May 14, 2009, 1:49 PM

I agree that the seats definitely need to be larger, however, it is a problem when you are next to someone who also takes up half of your seat. If I pay full price for a seat on a flight, is it fair that an obese person takes up half of my seat? Everyone who is on the plane deserves the right to be comfortable. I don't feel that the airlines are picking on larger people, but I'm glad they finally realize that others are being inconvenienced with this growing problem.

Posted By JLB on May 15, 2009, 3:19 PM

For the airlines: Many overweight flyers KNOW they cannot comfortably fit into a coach seat, and would like to purchase 2 seats. They cannot do so, as some one noted previously. Also some posters noted that the airline will take that seat if the airline overbooks. This assinine practice should stop immediately. Allow ANYONE (even normal sized flyers) to purchase 2 coach seats that cannot be 'bumped' without full compensation, as well as accommodation on another flight. When my husband and I fly on vacation, we would prefer to have the entire bank of 3 seats to ourselves (hubby is 6'4" and needs the space to put his legs) and I would pay for 3 seats for 2 people but the airlines won't let us.

To those that are defending the oversized flyers -- you claim that fat people are being discriminated against. Well, I have been "discriminated against" for years because I am a smaller than average flyer, who has paid full price for my seat, and have only had use of 1/2 to 2/3 of my seat because someone was overflowing into my seat! Not one fatty offered to reimburse me for THEIR use of MY seat. And to the person who was PO'd because their neighbor didn't 'thank them' for holding in their fat -- HELLO??!!! You want me to THANK YOU for NOT overflowing or for overflowing only a little bit into my seat? Get real. Did anyone ever thank me for being small? Uh, no, and I'd never expect it anyway.

Someone was commenting on the "lack" of complaints that the airlines receive -- let me tell you, most of us do not have the time or the patience to complain to the airlines. They make it pretty darn difficult to lodge a complaint. I did not make a formal complaint on any of the dozen or so occasions when someone sat on top of me during a flight.

This rule has nothing to do with personal choices or exercise or anything. This is strictly a "one ticket - one seat" issue. Anyone making it into something else is just putting up a red herring to avoid the real issue.

Posted By I fit on May 15, 2009, 4:27 PM

And when I pay twice in order to take up those two seats but then am denied them, it's ok? The couple of times that I have purchased two seats, they have not been given to me! They have either been given to people who would otherwise have been put on standby or given to employees. I've requested a refund but one has never been given. Airlines apparently think they can treat larger folks like shit and steal from them and be immune from the consquences. Never again!

Posted By Angela on May 16, 2009, 7:24 AM

This is a cynical attempt by a bankrupt corporation to squeeze an extra fare out of the one class of people in America that it is still acceptable to ostracize. For shame.

Posted By fatso on May 18, 2009, 3:14 PM

This is only fair to people who can fit in one seat and have payed their money to buy it.
I feel badly for overweight people because of the damage they're doing to their health. But it's not fair to make me suffer.
When I see a heavy person approaching I make sure the arm rest is down and refuse to lift it to give up my space and be crammed by a heavy person.

Posted By F.Hesser on May 20, 2009, 1:00 PM

I have been in the situation where I overflowed onto the other passengers seat and I was so mortified. I have lost a lot of weight making me a normal weight person but I still feel tight in the seats of most airlines. I have lost over 150 pounds. I have tried purchasing two seats and was also denied the extra seat when they claim they needed to put another passenger in it. They can't have it both ways! They can't demand you buy a second seat and then refuse to let you use it when they have to turn down a another passenger, I mean they got the cost of the seat so why would they snatch it from someone who already paid for it? Well, because they can, and then the obese passenger is stuck fighting for a refund. Why can't they make the seats appropriately sized for people who measure a certain amount of his size and let obese people buy those seats? If they took out the arm rest on the window seat that would also save about 5 inches. Why won't they accommodate obese people rather than making it a character issue and intentionally humiliating people? I know, that this kind of hurt and humiliation does nothing but make fat people EAT MORE because of the emotional pain. I go out of my way to avoid United. They will not get my business unless I have no other alternatives.

Posted By Jacquie on May 21, 2009, 12:53 PM

How will you get around the "reasonable accommodations for disabled" laws when someone is overweight, particularly due to a medical condition? For example, many cancer treatments involve high doses of steroids which lead to massive weight gain, sometimes as much as 150 lbs. My friend had this, a fit, healthy active woman, went from 115 to 220 in 6 months while eating very little. How should this be handled? What about the psychiatric meds, the antipsychotics and Bipolar meds in particular, which lead to astounding weight gain even in healthy young children and adolescents? What about large men, Micheal Phelps, for example...his gigantic shoulders would definitely be jabbing into yours. Should people with cancer pay more? Should the mentally ill pay more? What about races that weigh more, such as Puma Indians, whose entire generations have been obese and whose genetics make it almost impossible for them to be a normal weight? What about overweight children, should they be kept home if their parents cannot afford an extra seat? What about people with large abdominal tumors or enlarged livers? What about body builders?

Posted By Harley on May 21, 2009, 2:04 PM

This is why I love Budget Travel--such thought provoking topics, and I mean that seriously. Everyone has a good point, but the question I most agree with is WHO is going to decide if someone is obese or not? Who gets to decide where that line is? And how DO you know if you fit in the seat UNTIL you board?

I am chubby, but not obese, and I can tell you that I fill my seat. Those seats and aisles are really small. I do not overflow into the seat next to me because of my weight, BUT I do have a lot of trouble fitting my legs into "my space" due to their length! I most certainly could easily overflow into someone else's leg room (and do when the seat is empty). What if someone complains about my legs infringing on their space? Should I be kicked off the plane or buy another seat? I can't help my height and I can't help that the airlines moved another row of seats in to save money.

I generally have to stick one foot in the aisle and snuggle it up against the seat in front of me so that I am not horribly uncomfortable. Being truly comfortable is something I cannot achieve and have made peace with that. I am always considerate of having to move it for the drink cart or when people are walking.

And what do they care if they sell two seats to ONE person or two seats to TWO people? It's all the same money! Makes no sense to deny that second seat to one person who paid for it fair and square, if that's what they now require.

Ranking on larger people is the last bastion of acceptable prejudice. Shame, shame. Don't judge people for their size. It is none of our business how or why they are their size, and it is not for anyone to decide what they "deserve" based on any societal taboo.

Posted By DLH on May 21, 2009, 3:23 PM

Good grief. How 'bout a little exercise: imagine all the airlines have gone out of business, so we can forget about the old business model and pricing.

Now you are starting a new airline. Given your cost structure (limited space and weight carrying abilities for each plane, and fuel costs go up as weight increases) how would you structure pricing?

Look at UPS and Fed Ex: charges vary by package weight, size and distance. Fed Ex does offer a fixed document weight if the doc can fit in a specific box and weighs less than 1 lb. USPS offers fixed rate boxes: if you can tape the box shut, you can mail it for that price. But just because your package or document is bigger, you don't get to mail it at the same price, even if it's an important package, even if we like you, even if it is for a good cause.

In southern Africa, when booking a charter flight, you have to tell them if you weigh over 190 lbs-- even if its all lean, solid muscle, and you fit in the seat. Over 190 lbs, and they charge you for a second seat. I understand that some airlines, when full, also require you to get on the scale with your luggage, and over a certain number, the luggage gets left behind. End of story.

It's not about discrimination, it's about the true cost of carrying various packages. Some people come in bigger packages. We love them anyway, but they don't get the same price (or box) as the $10.75 flat rate box.

Posted By anonycat on May 21, 2009, 5:49 PM

I am a frequent flyer. No one has mentioned the fact that men always take both arm rests. No one is required to quiet their children. No one can stop the child that is kicking the seat in front of them.

My husband can not be comfortable in a coach seat because his legs are too long.

We need to be considerate of each other. We are all able to accept the above irritations.

If the airlines would provide seating for the average customers and charge extra for additional size seats, and have a family section, they would surely have a lot of happier travelers.

Posted By CJD on May 21, 2009, 6:37 PM

I am a large guy that likes to travel. I fit in my seat but with no room left over. I always leave the armrest down so as not to intrude into my neighbors space. I fold my arms in so as not to touch the other passenger. This makes my flight uncomfortable but at least I know I am not interfering with other passengers comfort. According to recent studies about 60% of Americans are considered obese.I think the airlines need to address the increase in waist size in one of two ways. First they could increase the width of seats in economy throughout the whole cabin which would create more comfort for everybody including skinny people. Second they could have a section of the plane that had wider seats with longer belts for an increased price that could be purchased in advance to guarantee a correctly fitting seat (And nobody needs to mention 1st class because even though it has larger seats the price for the average consumer wanting 1st class is too costly). Also and even though this is only an opinion I believe Americans are too uptight about personal space. I believe that most people are use to having large personal spaces and entering a confined place for several hours with many human being make us uncomfortable. In conclusion the airline industry must adjust for this growing trend and needs to address it in the design of the airplane.

Posted By Herb on May 21, 2009, 10:49 PM

One idea can be borrowed from Europa Amusement Park in Germany - They have a mock seat prior to entering the roller caoster -in order to ensure that you fit correctly and the safety bar can properly lock into place. Brilliant and efficient! There are carry-on size-checkers at the check-in gates at every airport. Perhaps have a seat-size-checker located both in discreet places in the airports and also at the check-in station in case of question. The burden should not fall onto the flight crew. That is not why they are there... Also why can't I check in more/heavier luggage if I weigh LESS than the weight limits? Now there's an idea!

Posted By rebecca on May 22, 2009, 5:35 AM

One major concern here is safety. When a passenger overhangs into another passengers seat area. There safety is compromised as well as there comfort. All the airlines should have had this policy in place years ago. As far as judging who is obese I think that is fairly defined by the medical field. I feel sorry for those who are obese, but those who are not should not have there safety or comfort compromised just to allow an obese person to save money at the expense of others.

Posted By MRMECH on May 22, 2009, 3:23 PM

Thank God! I weight 125 pounds, yet due to weight limitations, am not allowed to check even one bag without paying extra. But the 300 pound guy next to me gets on without any consequences? WRONG!

Posted By chenerbeaner on May 24, 2009, 3:48 PM

OMG!! I fit in a regular seat but this has got to be a joke! If you are going to charge obese people because they are invading other peoples space then they also need to charge the people who bring screaming, crying babies or little kids who kick the backs of seats or the person who smells like they haven't showered in days for invading my 'space' as well. This is just another way the airline can screw more money out of people and give less customer service! United is a horrible airline anyway! As a teacher I have to make accomodations for kids with disabilities - airlines should have to accomodate people with disabilites as well! And yes, for some people obesity is a disability! I hope all of you that are so righteous about fat people 'invading your space' don't ever have a family member or even yourself that fits into that category of being obese - I would hate for you to be treated the way you are treating these people!

Posted By DS on May 24, 2009, 5:42 PM

A couple of observations as an Ex-fatty (I lost 100 lbs down to 220): When I was a fatty, I didn't huff and puff and demand more room than my seat allowed me. That's what trips my trigger today... like it's someone elses fault you're fat, so a stranger has to make allowances for it. Screw you. Then back in the day when I was fat, I scrunched in the seat, cross my arms, making sure to not cross the "invisible line" dividing the seats. More often than not, some righteous skinny twit would poke me while stretching half over my seat, and verbally abuse me. Screw Them, too.

Poor Brain, his heart bleeds. So he thinks you should be rewarded for making a poor choice. Yes, being fat is almost always a choice. (Sorry for the reality). Yeah, nothing would make me happier as a frequent flyer than to get left in coach because some over eater gets the upgrade instead of me. Too many rewards already for selfish, bad behavior in our society.

As far as fatty himself, your sound a little righteous. Does name calling the flight attendent a "sky waitress" make you feel better? They don't need to have a medical degree, just a tape measure.

Posted By David on May 25, 2009, 12:01 PM

This does NOT discriminate against overweight people; it's the way buying and selling works. If I bring two blouses to the Macy's register, I pay for two blouses. If I need or want two of ANYthing, I pay for TWO of whatever ... if I need two SEATS because my body is pressing into the thighs of the passenger next to me, I pay for TWO SEATS.

Posted By Pua on June 8, 2009, 2:18 PM

I guess none of the above people have flown midwest express air. they have cabins with 2 seats on each side of the row. the seats are as big as united's first class and they are cheaper. choose the right airline and have an enjoyable flight. choose united and have a lousey flight even in first class. The planes stink, they are filthy, the seats are small, the asiles are barely passable, and the employees are rude. I've flown both first on united and coach on midwest and will fly midwest every chance I get. United treats passengers like swine and they wonder why they loose money.

Posted By marty on June 8, 2009, 3:28 PM

I can't see that pre-flight weigh-in's would work either... I am someone who is definitely considered obese, but also fit into one seat with the arm-rests down (and yes, am working on losing weight so I'm more comfortable). However, as a "dense" body-weight person (at a perfect size 10/12 I still weighed about 170 lbs and am only 5'3") you can't assume that 280 is too largeor that someone who is only 250 would fit - density of body mass definitely makes a difference in overall size... Additionally, I agree that if someone cannot fit into their seat with the armrests down, they SHOULD pay for an additional seat... trying being one of those people who uses up all their own space and then have someone who requires more than their space sitting next to you... NOT FUN at all!!!

Posted By soniday on June 8, 2009, 4:27 PM

Perhaps we should all start voting with our wallets.
I don't want to share the seat I paid for any more than an obese person wants to infringe on it, so go back to seats that fit people... everyone is uncomfortable in the poor excuses for seats the airlines provide.
I for one average sized woman, would happily pay more money to an airline that switched to reasonably sized seats, preferably with two armrests for EACH seat (no more elbow fights with strangers or husbands). Though I enjoy the distraction of movies on international flights (won't pay for them on domestic), I always carry an MP3 player and a book, so if they cut out the video on planes to offset the cost of the larger seats, so be it... I can entertain myself. Not to mention, as others have pointed out, getting rid of the video equipment would free up overhead - and in some cases underseat - space that is so precious. In an added bonus, the MP3 blocks out most noisy people/children.
Airlines have become amazingly hostile toward their customers, perhaps rightfully to some extent, but as a service industry they should never show it. What should we the consumer expect when we refuse to pay for the airlines' increased costs? How can they stay in business if they don't pass it on? You pay more for gas when prices go up if you want to continue driving your car, so it should be with airfare.
That said, airlines should make sure to adjust prices down when costs reduce. They should honor their contracts and promises. No scheduling a flight only to cancel it because it's not full - don't schedule it in the first place - add a flight if the demand is too high. If any person buys a second seat for any reason, they keep their extra seat or get a refund. They should treat passengers as the customers they are... the ones paying their bills. The fat cats that run the industry should sit in the standard coach seats and decide if they would be happy in them on a flight of 14 hrs because they put the tiny seats on the crazy-long flights, too.
If we voted with our wallets, the airlines that treat customers like dirt would go out of business because they wouldn't have our business.

Posted By Monica on June 9, 2009, 9:16 AM

Being a detail person, I'm a bit concerned about the restrictions being arbitrary--who's deciding? Many people on here have said the armrest should be the measurement, but what if a flight attendant feels differently? What's the EXACT measurement of obesity? For example, I'm not obese but I have wide hips that usually end up touching the people next to me... is that an infringement? Also, what if no one objects? Will all obese people be subject to this, even if the person next to them doesn't complain? If so, it would basically be a gamble. Will the person be lucky enough to sit by someone who doesn't care, or will they be charged because someone complained? Without specific regulations that are enforced 100% of the time, there'll end up being some kind of discrimination suit.

Posted By Sasha on June 11, 2009, 2:36 PM

Wow. What an ugly issue, huh? In 2 weeks I am going to Ireland & I have been in tears since I purchased the tickets. Why? Im fat. LOL! If you think it's uncomfortable to sit NEXT to me? Try BEING me!! I am already anticipating the narrow ailes, the seats, the struggle with the seatbelt - and oh no... the bathrooms! I do NOT require a belt extension. I Can put my armrest & tray down, AND I am able to squeeze my "girth" into the seat. It sucks. For me, the person next to me, and for the poor flight attendants who have to "watch me" board to see if Im gonna cause the plane to lean to one side.

This is my question. From reading people's cruel & humiliating respnses re: fluffy folks having the NERVE to leave our houses & force the perfect to look at us - what is the issue? Is the issue #1 - charge us more as a form of punishment for letting ourselves "go" & wanting to fly somewhere? Why should we have to buy another seat?? WHY can't the airlines accomodate us? which, in turn, accomodates you perfect skinny people?? OR #2 - Is the issue that there is an actual SAFETY concern regarding our weighing more than average, thus creating a risk to the mechanics of the aircraft?? Many of you mention that we should have to weigh-in & pay a "fat tax" if we exceed the set requirement. That IS reason enough to charge us more & I would have no problem with that. I want a safe flight too!!
Many of you - and RIGHTLY SO - commented that you paid for a full seat on a flight and deserve to enjoy your trip. Absolutely. Totally agree. BUT - I did too. I paid for a seat on a plane & like it or not - I deserve to be comfortable as well & not subjected to nasty remarks, insults, stares & humiliation. Why am I "lesser" of a customer, deserving of nothing, but expected to pay the same as, if not twice as much as the skinny? If airlines are going to charge us more, humiliate us in front of everyone, threat "bumping" us off the flight... why should I have to pay to be treated that way?? Would any of you skinny folks pay more for that treatment? Do you really think that makes me feel good? Do you really think Im not aware of my weight issue? Do you really think I'm luggin' this extra crap around with me for giggles??
Make the reason for the discrimination clear at least. I'm a kind person. I'm a reasonable person. I am a respectful person. I am a mother, a wife, a daughter, an aunt, a sister & a friend. I am a 911 dispatcher who may save your life someday. Would it really be such a hardship on you all to be as kind to me as I am to you?
Yes, YOU... the one who's been up drinking all night & smells like stale booze. YOU, the chain smoker. YOU, the one who refuses to wear deodorant. YOU, the one who bathes in perfume/cologne. YOU, who ate a pound of garlic before boarding & didn't brush their teeth. YOU, with the crying baby, sick baby, hyper-active toddler, or kid that stares at me through the crack between the seats in front of mine. YOU, who won't stop talking to me. YOU, who WON'T talk to me. You with the spider legs longer than the aisle who has no choice but to stretch them over near me...(and go right ahead! BUT,only after you purchase an extra "floor" space).

I appreciate EVERYONE's right to get what they paid for & expect a comfortable flight where they can move & breath & not feel "smooshed"... I really do. I want that as well.

How about instead of attacking us poor, lazy, smelly, oozers of fat into others paid for personal space - we ask the airline's to start packing us in like sardines & for THEM to address the issue. Don't any of you get that?? The airlines are struggling & instead of providing REAL answers & resolutions - they are pointing to the fat & yelling "blame them!! it's all their fault!! We don't like them on our planes EITHER!!" and ask them to grow the hell up & make seats/sections available to accomodate ALL customers who are paying the SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY & deserve the SAME treatment.

Thanks for allowing me to vent - and if any of you are forced to sit next to me in 2 weeks to Ireland, I promise to lean out into the aisle the entire 10hours & make sure NONE of our body parts even slightly touch....

Posted By Mary on June 12, 2009, 11:56 PM

Hi, Thanks for article. Everytime like to read you.
Nadine

Posted By Nadine on June 30, 2009, 3:02 PM

It is truly astonishing to read the comments on this article. As a person of some size (6'2") I am sick to death of airlines pushing extra seats into an already over-crowded situation. I have crossed the country many times with men who seem to feel it is their special right to keep their knees two feet apart, women who talk incessantly and crawl all over you to get to the restroom four times (part of their health regimen no doubt), parents who feel they are off duty while the plane is in the air (and God forbid you find their rude children invasive) and all manner of people with questionable habits. It seems to me that the snarky self-righteous who so object to the idea of sitting beside an overweight person, even if they are not overflowing their seat, would make unpleasant companions in any situation. Perhaps American and United will accomplish something greater-- fewer people will fly on their smashed-in, pushed forward and all together uncomfortable flights and these wonderful folks who think they are so very put upon will end up subsidizing those empty seats out of their own pockets. Good on 'em. Bathrooms aren't the only things that stink in an airplane-- and the attitudes of these people are ripe.

Posted By A Gallagher on July 2, 2009, 7:54 AM

Three times now I've lost my seat due to the obese - once stuck between a fat married couple who booked the aisle and window, my shoulders jammed together, unable to use my arms for five hours. The stews took pity on me and let me sit on a fold-down jumpseat until landing.

The next two times, international flights, stuck against the window each time (in the outer two-seat rows) by men weighing well over 250 lbs. TEN HOURS EACH WAY. And the fat guys? Miserable, jammed into their average-sized seats. At least they acted embarrassed, unlike the married couple.

The airlines are removing LEGROOM, that's length, not width, people (and I'm unhappy about that just like you). I'm average size (five foot ten, 170 lbs) and the seats *just* fit me in coach. You clock in at 60 pounds heavier, you'll need two average-sized seats.

As to being obese and poor and unable to buy two seats, hey, most of us have had money troubles in our lives. The solution? DON'T FLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

And the airlines need to change their seating plans, too.

Posted By I Want My Seat on August 18, 2009, 12:31 PM

As a resident of the one state that SWA cannot fly from (for legal reasons),I've read a lot of venom in this posting some of it based on a big lie. Thia is the 2000's not the 1920's.Name one commercial airliner crash in which aircraft overweight was a primary or contributing factor (we'll wait while someone looks it up).Planes today are loaded with passengers, luggage, fuel, and tens of tons of cargo(these are 73-5-67s ,A300-310-320 ,etc).
Too many of the ideas put forth here founder on the rock of tha fact that most tickets today are purchased online which means that the sizer- seat option will not work (this forces the plus size passenger to buy their tickets at the gate, which adds to the cost on top of the possible 2x penalty).
For the "people" who's answer is diet try this: I'm supposed to have spent 6 to 24 months prepping for a flight I may have only found out I have to take 8 to 12 hours ago?

Posted By Timothy Frierson on September 1, 2009, 12:42 AM

Force overweight people to buy seats and watch your revenue drop, airlines. Haven't checked obesity rates in the US lately have you.

Posted By Smith on October 12, 2009, 11:14 PM

May be the air lines could consider - some now are selling extra leg room with the purchase of over wing seat at a slightly extra premium.

Well for persons who are bigger - replace say 2 - 4 rows of three seat with double seating, stating that these seats may be purchased by persons with a weight and/or girth/rear/top dimension exceding "XXX" only.

Paying an extra premium, but should a thinner person be buying because they want the extra room - will have to forfeit the seating if there is a person on the same fly fitting the requirements are given the seat and asked to pay the premium.

If the airline do consider putting into practice the above - when purchasing these seats it should shout BOLD, CAPITALS, LARGER PERSON SEATING ONLY at the start and finish/payment - the terms and conditions are - that persons not fitting the requirements puchasing will not be refund if they have to vacate there seat for someone who will.

I am annoyed when you see something really good but the terms and condition are always in exceptional fine print in the effort that someone won't or can not read the fine print; or asterist that some times you have to go to the end of the document which can be pages away, so that by the time you go to puchasing you have forgotten to read.

Because, yes I am not happy when someone invades my space but having said that it not only the bigger person to invade - people who think they have the right to hog the arm rest. We are all on a limited space be considerate people.

Posted By Helen on January 16, 2010, 6:09 PM